Sunday, January 07, 2018

On Politics, hate and Christianity

I have an old  friend, a relative actually, who is very conservative and consciously right wing politically. She supports Trump and being my relative she is very intelligent, this is an incongruity hard to live with, To make matters worse she is an effective debater for her side.Regardless of how deeply I hate Trump I don't allow myself to love this person any less because she's family and that counts. Now she's written me a long heart-felt letter announcing and explaining her withdrawal from politics. It seems she feels pulled away from God by the furor of the political scene,especially feelings of hatred. She has given me pause to think about the hateful aspects, but I can't accept giving up the political.

I am glad she left politics because one less effective apologist for them, but she does make me think: we must avoid hatred, Before going on I will say I believe this for the sake of being right with God; but it is also true that hating does not serve us well politically. We can sit around and hate Trump and get on facebook and talk about how bad he is but that doesn't do jack toward saving democracy.

I feel like I should explore my reasons for remaining in the political struggle. Because I wish I could just turn to the insular world of theology and think abut God and answer abstract theological questions  all my life. I do not enjoy  dealing with hateful angry people. Yet when I contemplate doing this I feel like it would be backing down from the very point where the Gospel is in peril.

The reason what's happening today in  politics endangers the Gospel is because of what has happened to the angelical church, [1] That can be summed up in the notion, they have sold their birth right for a bowl of soup. They have basically equated belief in Jesus with voting republican.[2] That alchemy was accomplished by making abortion the one "true" issue that supersedes all else. U am not going to discuss that now but I will say that evangelical thinking on that topic is pathetic, [3]If they defend the Bible as badly as they do "right to life" (ati-abortion) then the Gospel is in trouble.

The birthright they sold is two fold, (1) democracy, (2) the Gospel or salvation, They sold their birthright as Americans to live in a democracy by  sacralizing the social project of the strong man dictator. Trump's labeling of all criticism as "fake news"is nothing more than  the dictator silencing criticism. The Trump DOJ has moved to silence protesters.[4] The gospel is sold out any time it is equated with temporal power. At that point the gospel becomes not a move of the heart toward God but a pragmatic move of the mind toward safety,security, or power. That is the antithesis of seeking God.

Back when the primaries began there was a guy calling himself "Illion" (aka Idion) posting on  dangerous idea blog who came out and said :you are not a Christian if you are not a republican, Now I'm beg accused pf thinking the sane way only in relation to my views. That is clearly not the case. Here's part of that exchange. BTW the guy saying this is not that much out of line because I did   unload on him.

January 07, 2018 7:19 AM
Blogger Joe Hinman said...
Legion of Logic said...
Joe, I can only conclude that you are an anti-conservative bigot, and that rational discussion with someone who has as much hate in his heart as you do is not possible.

you are confusing passion with hatred. If this is not the time to climb the barricades and shout when is it? We are facing annihilation and the systematic disemboweling of the whole edifice of progress made since Teddy Roosevelt and you want me to treat it like just business as usual.Conform to the nitrites let the brain washed have their fantasy.

I don't hate you. in fact I like you. what I hate is the game I see many conservatives playing where they write it all off as boys will be boys and condone murder,rape, torture, and lies but if you call them on it (with proof) you are a liar and an extremist and full of hate. Many conservators appreciated atheist watch did not think my anti-atheist varododo was extreme but wont tolerate my political opinion.

My log piece tomorrow on Metacrock will be abouit hating or not hating your enemies a and Christians staying in the struggle,I hope you will read it because some of it will be written with you mind, 

January 07, 2018 10:19 AM
Blogger Joe Hinman said...
Your political views far, far outweigh your Christian beliefs, based upon your last post that was utterly devoid of all charity,

LL, first of all I apologize for assuming you voted for Trump. I know lots of Christians who did not but since 80% did it's hard start out assuming otherwise.

to everything there is a season this is the time to evoke as else of alarm. Human lives are being wasted to inflate Trump's ego ,this is the time to build the barricade. If my political views were more important than my following Jesus i would be posting here.If I did not know Jesus is real in a way I can't deny I sure as hell would not hang in based upon the evangelicals who for the most part are hypocritical morons who sold out all their principles for temporal power (present company excepted).

There are individuals I know who I will not break contact with because I know they love Jesus and they are not and people even though they voted for
Trump. Many of them are intelligent people who I have respected in the past I can't forget. Some are family and that outranks politics (I am from Dallas and live there now so obviously I have Republican relatives). Many in the Cadre are Trum supporters and I have not disbanded we still have the grou-,we just don't talk politics,

the difference in me and that right wing Iddion guy who used to post here he would say "you are not a Christian" I never told you that and I wont because I know you are, No I do not believe that agreement with my politics is prerequisite for salvation.

I never said you are not a good person nor not saved,I do think you are brain washed,

which sadly is an illness that has afflicted most people these days - everyone is apparently infallible in their morals and understanding, based on how enthusiastically they attack and spew hatred at anyone who disagrees.

which one of us has empirical studies? not you, if I was just being hot headed I wouldn't bother to research it.No one cares that I have scientific proof of my position,so it's time to create alarm.If loss of life doesn't make people take stock what will?

It should give you pause that agreeing with you politically seems to be your standard for whether someone is wicked. Because I know for a fact that my conservative leanings do not automatically put me at odds with God, 

I never said that, at the same you don;t want t to know

I know for a fact that my conservative leanings do not automatically make me selfish (I make around $20-25,000 a year, not rich and never will be),

you are good little surf obeying your masters, good surf, pull your forelocks now,

and I know for a fact that many (not all) progressive policies directly lead to harm. Those are facts that no amount of blaming me or Trump or whoever can change. Progressive policies driven by Democrats often lead to harm. Simple fact, and simple reason for me to oppose them when they do.


let me see your methodological indictments of the studies on coal fired air pollution. I am betting you have no empirical evidence to back that up,if you do I'd like to see it,

But no, only PROGRESLLSIVES are good people, right? Only people who agree with YOU are good people. With a mindset like that, where honest disagreement is immoral, I wonder why the body of Christ can't find unity? Hmm.
I thought McCain was good until he voted for the tax scam and caused those 13 million to lose their benefits,he saved them in public and then dumps in private,

You and Starhopper have put on a good display of the rationality and charity in the Christian left. I can't bear much more of it, so I'm going to go be an evil satanic conservative somewhere else. Good day.

ok Paul Harvy-- goodday--that's a rationalization-- you stir up guilt so I'll label you as extreme so Im justified in turning you off, no facts no data, no studies, but hke sure he knows,

His complaint is actually putting us i a double bind, we reach out the olive branch we are being phony if we don;t we are hateful.


[1] Joesph Hinman, "Evangelicals and The Changing of The Mazeways," Metacrock's  Blog, (Aug 14, 2017)
(accessed Jan 5, 2018 )

[2] sellimg birth right for soup story of Jacob and Esau. (Genesis 27:34–40) ( see Wiki)
as for the assumption that evangelicals make this equation it;s pretty obvious.

(accessed Jan 5, 2018 )

see comments no reflection on BK.My friend BK is a very intelligent guy, a lawyer, but he feels compelled to accept bad arguments on this issue,

[4] David Bell,"Fake News is Not The Real edia Threat We are Facig," The Atlantic (Dec 2016)
(accessed Jan 5, 2018 )


Kristen said...

I agree, we have to stand up for what we believe is right, but we also must understand that tribalism, the us-vs-them mentality, turns our cure into something worse than the disease. I don't think Jesus would be a Democrat or a Republican, but He would go on addressing both individual and systemic sins that hold people in bondage. Sometimes the Democrat ideas of how to address these ills, are only bandaid solutions that don't get to the root of the problem. Sometimes we could learn a thing or two from the Republicans, and they from us-- but as long as we treat each other as the enemy, we can't listen, change or grow.

Kristen said...

One thing is very clear to me, though-- as soon as churches begin seeking political and social power, they have left their first love. We need to repent and do the deeds we did at first, as Jesus said, because the power of the world systems will not accomplish anything lasting in the end.

Joe Hinman said...

amen, preach it sister! Seriously I agree

Starhopper said...


What you need to do is hate "Trumpism" and pity (rather than hate) Trump.

I personally feel quite sorry for him. Such a loveless existence as his must truly be hell on Earth.

Joe Hinman said...

right, good to see you starhopper. I did kind of say that in my opening statmet,

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