Thursday, July 31, 2008

Letter to an Atheist Named Alice Rose

 This has been up since July of 08, it's now 1/15/10. This post remains the post popular on the blog and people continue to send in answers on it. I am just tonight answering comments made today on this post. I have no idea why it's so popular and Alice Rose never answered back. I guess the title sounds intriguing.


A few minutes ago an atheist put a comment on an old blog spot from way back in 12/7/07 or somewhere around that time.. Ordinarily I would just let her have her say and forget it because it was such an old piece. She will probably never look at my answer. For some reason the tone of it made me want to give a good serious answer. I tried to find her profile and could not, so I googaled her name, Alice Rose. I may have found her on my space but don't know, If so he's only about 16! I don't know what experiences she has had, but she's too young to be mean to. So I am going to give a serious nice answer, trying as hard as I can to be nice. I hope word gets back to this person.

Here are her comments. the piece she responded to was "Introducing Atheist Watch" my now defunct other blog. I did away with Atheist Watch because I found that watching for atheists to say hateful things made me more hateful myself.

Alice Rose's comments:

Atheism is about love of logic, not hatred of religion, my good sir.

Sure, there are a few individuals who are feed up with what my people are going through, but honestly who are you to say we're not good people?

Just because we don't believe this "proof" that there's a bearded sky daddy handed down from thousands and thousands of years ago doesn't make us bad. Bastardizations of the truth perpetrated by delusional(but I'm sure, very nice) people make us seem bad.

We're a hate group?
Is that so? when have I, this supposed member of a hate group harassed someone?

My name is AliceRose and I am a your typical peaceful Atheist.

Anyway, I hope you see the real connection between Santa and god.

Good luck to ya, Mr. MeanyPants.



Ok I think deserves a nice serious answer:

Atheism is about love of logic, not hatred of religion, my good sir.


none of the atheists that I deal with on message boards would say that atheism is about loving logic. they all says it's a lack of a belief, nothing more. So where does this idea come from that it's about loving logic? why is it that every time I use logic to argue for the existence of God atheists come out of the wood work to tell me that logic is no good, it can't tell us anything, we have to have empirical scientific evidence not logic?


Sure, there are a few individuals who are fed up with what my people are going through, but honestly who are you to say we're not good people?



I don't' know what you mean by "fed up with what people are going through?" Before I get to that I want to point out that I did not say atheists are not good people. I did not say atheists are a hate group. I don't know why you can't just repeat myw words accurately and fairly. I pointed out over and over again that I was speaking of a certain segment within the atheist community, which apparently you know is there.

why aren't you telling that segment to stop? why is it so hard for you to use peer pressure on something you know is right? you use peer pressure to humiliate and ridicule Christians. Why can't you use it to shut up the hateful segment in the atheist community?

Now when you say "what people are going through" you mean to say that religion is so bad and so oppressive that this is why the hateful segment is reacting? But I was an atheist. I was fed up with the oppressive aspects of Christianity. But I didn't go around exhibiting lies and ridicule and hurting religious people's feelings and refusing to try to understand what religion is about? Don't you think if you are going to criticize something you should at least try to understand it first?

There is a huge body of scientific evidence that proves that religion is real good for you, much better than unbelief in terms of less depression, more awareness, self actualization, better adjustment, being positive, enjoying life and better health. People don't listen to that. They don't know about it. All the harping atheists do on how bad religion is is just setting up a straw man argument. Straw man means you construct an argument and pretend your enemy gave it. You construct in such a way that it's easy to attack. The problem is straw man arguments never really do justice to the other side or the case they could make. Atheists are just ignoring the most intelligent and rational side of religious belief and pretending like it's all like the extrmee forms of fundamentalism.


Just because we don't believe this "proof" that there's a bearded sky daddy handed down from thousands and thousands of years ago doesn't make us bad. Bastardizations of the truth perpetrated by delusional(but I'm sure, very nice) people make us seem bad.


First of all I never said atheists are "bad." Secondly, I was never talking about all atheist and made that quite clear every time. Now you show me from what you say that your basic view is that belief is a delusion and that your understanding of religion is about a big man in the say. Now this is a good example of what I mean by "straw man argument." IF you don't know that most religious belief is much more sophisticated then that, then you don't know enough about tit to be criticizing it. You should study it more. you should especially look for the theologians, the real thinkers, not just the common man on the street. If you know better and you are just using hyperbole then you are setting up a straw man argument. In either case you are not being fair. Anyone can attack the simplistic notions of ancient man, but yous should know that modern theolgoians at places like Oxford and Cambridge have sophisticated modern ideas of God. As for thinking that it's a delusion this is disproved by a host of empirical studies. Religion is proven not be connected to any kind of mental illness.

I think you are refusing to fairly study or understand religion. You want to criticize it because that's what's cool, thats' in, but it's not fair and it's wrong. You should study the best and most sophisticated version of it before you claim to know what's wrong with it.

I hope you consider what I said, you are always welcome to comment on my blog.

18 comments:

Mike aka MonolithTMA said...

I'm totally going to call you Mr. MeanyPants from now on. ;-)

Ok, maybe not.

Good answers.

I really don't like when atheists use titles like bearded sky daddy or invisible friend. To me, it's disrespectful.

I did a post about it here: http://atheists-and-christians.blogspot.com/2008/07/invisible-friends.html

J.L. Hinman said...

you call me that and I'll put up a Mike watch" site! ;-)

good post, I mean the one you link to. thanks for the comments.

Mike aka MonolithTMA said...

Mike Watch! I like it!

You do realize that if your screen name was Mr. MeanyPants that would totally disarm those who attack you. How could you attack someone with such a cute name? ;-)

Brent Rasmussen said...

Heheh...

I think you are refusing to fairly study or understand religion. You want to criticize it because that's what's cool, thats' in, but it's not fair and it's wrong. You should study the best and most sophisticated version of it before you claim to know what's wrong with it.

Great example of The Courtier's Reply!

Issues of "sophistication" aside, when you boil it down to it's most basic components, Christian-flavored theists believe that a magical man in the sky made it all with magic.

C'mon, c'mon - try and deny it. You can't. You may take issue with the names I have given to your sacred mythological concepts, but it is an accurate - if irreverent - representation of the core beliefs of most religions.

Which are just laughably silly when you really think about them in light of everything we now know about our universe.

I don't need a degree in "sophisticated" theological nonsense to recognize that it is indeed nonsense.

I respect your right to hold silly, irrational beliefs. However, that also means that I have the right to call them silly.

A Hermit said...

It would help to have the post in question so we can have some idea of what she was responding to. If it was one of your old "atheists are evil Nazis who don't know how to think" rants I'd say she was remarkably restrained...;-)

Mike aka MonolithTMA said...

A Hermit, that's totally unfair, Joe would never write an "atheists are evil Nazis who don't know how to think" post. Sheesh!

He'd write an "atheists are all child raping, baby seal bludgeoning, infant eating, wastes of the very dna they are made of" posts. Come on! Get it right!

J.L. Hinman said...

Mike Watch! I like it!

You do realize that if your screen name was Mr. MeanyPants that would totally disarm those who attack you. How could you attack someone with such a cute name? ;-)

7:48 AM


No it wouldn't. I think I'm going to cahnge my screen name to Fritz Von Erich: Master of the iron claw.

Mike aka MonolithTMA said...

"Fritz Von Erich: Master of the iron claw."

OK, that would kick ass! ;-)

Tetsu no Tsume!

(Of course I had no idea who he was until I looked him up.)

J.L. Hinman said...

the little hate mongers who attack Christianity with their little know nothing nonsese about "O it's big sky daddy" are nothing more than fools trapped in sin longerng to be free from the guilt but too trapped to understand why they hate God so.

they don't read. that guy does not read. he doesn't know shit from fucking shinola abotu thoelogy . look at at waht he said "it's so igrnoant such crap.'

well you read it?

I can't have to read it, it's just crap.

who says?
'
dawkins

have you read dawkins?

a page or two

do you know he's not a scientsit? do you realize he has read theology either?

but he doesn't have to casue it's nonesne.

how do you know it nonesne

because it's about big sky daddy

but it's not

yes it is

but you have read it so how do you know?

dawkins says so

be hasn't read it.

J.L. Hinman said...

but he atheists love logic! they wont read it. they wont use it in assess God arguments. but they love it. they love so much they think it can't tell us a goddamn thing.

J.L. Hinman said...

ME:I think you are refusing to fairly study or understand religion. You want to criticize it because that's what's cool, thats' in, but it's not fair and it's wrong. You should study the best and most sophisticated version of it before you claim to know what's wrong with it.

Him:
Great example of The Courtier's Reply!

HimIssues of "sophistication" aside, when you boil it down to it's most basic components, Christian-flavored theists believe that a magical man in the sky made it all with magic.


Mewrong sorry. you don't know anything about christianity. you only know about fundamentalism which is a small part of Christianity.

Process theology sees God as bipolar, consequent pole that changes with creation, a potential pole and is never chaning.

Tillich saw God as Being itself.

Schweitzer saw God as the life force.

Augustine saw God as a mind that continaed the realm of the forms of Plato.

Christian mystics see God as indescribable mystery beyond our understanding.

That's just off the top of my head. There are many many more. My own view is a synthesis of Tillich and the mystics.

HimC'mon, c'mon - try and deny it. You can't. You may take issue with the names I have given to your sacred mythological concepts, but it is an accurate - if irreverent - representation of the core beliefs of most religions.

meyour ignorance is showing.

HimWhich are just laughably silly when you really think about them in light of everything we now know about our universe.


meOk put up your duke dumb dub. let's debate. I'll tear you apart. you are ignorant, unread unlearned foolish and unwilling to learn. you don't know anything about it.

have you ever read a single page written by any major theologians? can you even name a theologian? you probably think Jerrry Fallwell is one right?

put up your dukes know it all! put your money where your ignorant mouth is. just tell me the name of one theologian you know about.

dumb dumbI don't need a degree in "sophisticated" theological nonsense to recognize that it is indeed nonsense.

Meyou need an iq transplant

himI respect your right to hold silly, irrational beliefs. However, that also means that I have the right to call them silly.

Meyou do not.don't be a phony. you don't respect a God damn thing. You obviously don't respect knowledge. You don't have the slighest ideas what theology is about. you are willing to judge it knwong absoltuely nothing about it..

Anonymous said...

Atheists aren't all evil.

They are just lying swine who would put us in Gulags, torture and kill us if they had the power.

Just like they did to my grandparents and tried to do to my parents.

I, among many others, will NEVER SUBMIT TO ATHEIST RULE!!!

Anonymous said...

this whole post is ignorant and hypocritical. a lot of hateful comments from so called peace lovers.you shouldnt try to push your beliefs on people with your critism and assumptions, you should accept people for who they are and what they believe in. when you generalise people into groups, such as "athiests" and "christians" then your the ones causing the hate and prejudice.

Metacrock said...

Eric I am going to answer both your comments in the main blog feature (hope page) for today. I think it deserves a good answer and it's important enough to be seen as it's on post.

The home page is here

I'll get it up latter tonight.

CatS said...

Hello I'm nearly 16 so I'm probably about Alice Rose's age. Let me just say that I know lots of girls like her who are, shall we say, a bit dim in the head, and in a few years they all grow up. I completely support your post; I'm a debator so I know about the straw man arguements. They are easy to use, but will never win you a debate. Thanks for taking the time to reply to her post anyway; lots of people just ignore what teenagers say.

Metacrock said...

Thanks for your comment Cats. I was a debater too. I would love to hear about your experiences in debate.

The high school topic this year seems like a pretty tough one in my opinion. I'm speaking of the NFL topic.

thanks again, take care.

Eltrek said...

Isn't it wrong to say "atheists" ? They are individuals, who have different characteristics. The only common thing in them is that they do not believe in god... I think everyone should choose for himself. And their choice should be RESPECTED. Stop making fun/arguing about religion. A person can be good or bad regardless of his religion.

P.S: You can't say christians are all the same. It's just not true.

Oh and another thing... I do not believe in god, despite the fact that my grandfather (and his father, and his father and so on) was a priest, my family is religious, and I understand, and studyed christianity's process, and beliefs(which isn't really necessary to form an opinion.)

I would really appreciate an answer, and if your interested, I would even tell you arguments to support my decision. I think I could tell you facts, that would "shake your spiritual world".

Metacrock said...

Isn't it wrong to say "atheists" ? They are individuals, who have different characteristics. The only common thing in them is that they do not believe in god... I think everyone should choose for himself. And their choice should be RESPECTED. Stop making fun/arguing about religion. A person can be good or bad regardless of his religion.

open your eyes and look at the facts. They are making fun of us. they live to mock and ridicule Christians. There's a lot more going on there, don't be so naive. Atheism is a movement, it contains a hate group, and a larger movement based upon hating Christians.

see my other blog:


Atheistwatch

P.S: You can't say christians are all the same. It's just not true.

I don't say atheists are all the same, but a huge portion of them are brain washed.

Oh and another thing... I do not believe in god, despite the fact that my grandfather (and his father, and his father and so on) was a priest, my family is religious, and I understand, and studyed christianity's process, and beliefs(which isn't really necessary to form an opinion.)

Priests aren't supposed to marry, how could your father and grand father both be priests?

I would really appreciate an answer, and if your interested, I would even tell you arguments to support my decision. I think I could tell you facts, that would "shake your spiritual world".

OK sure I'd be glad to discuss your arguments. But could you make them on my message board.

Doxa Froums

or on the front kpage of Metacorck's blog in the comment section. this page is like several years old.