Wednesday, October 03, 2007

Christiantiy causes sids, aids, global warming,the holocuast and Halatosis

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Uncle Joe Kindly atheist thinker.

On the CARM (Christian Apolgoetics and Research Ministry) message board, the one reserved for atheists so they can deride, degade and mock those who put up the message board I find this post by one "Atheist Devil."

this is in a post calledjChristians:Crimes Against Humanity

I came across the following paper, written by a Professor at Whitworth University in Spokane, WA -- a Presbyterian affiliated institution.

The paper examines the role of Christian institutions in three major genocide events of the 20th century:

1. The Holocaust
2. Rwanda
3. Bosnia

The record of Christian organizations and their people's involvement in some of the darkest events of modern times is quite simply, appalling. From tacit approval, to actual involvement in the killings, Christian organizations and their people have blood on their hands.

Some details of interest. I took particular note of the facts about Nazi Germany. How many times have we heard Hitler was not a Christian? Whether or not he was is really beside the point as his country was a Christian country:

The Holocaust occurred throughout a Europe in which well over 90% of Europeans identified themselves as Christians. In Germany particularly, Christianity was pervasive and religious concerns prominent. More than 95% of Germans were baptized, tax-paying members of an established Christian church. It is no exaggeration to say that Germany was one of the most Christian nations in the world, if judged by the usual indices of church membership, church presses, theology students, etc.
Rwanda was the "most Christianized" country in Africa at the time of the 1994 genocide. 800,000 people killed over a 100 day period:

At the time of the 1994 genocide, Rwanda was the most Christianized country in Africa, where at least 65% of the population were Roman Catholics and 15% were Protestants. Catholic and Protestant churches were multi-ethnic (including both Hutu and Tutsis). Moreover, much of this Christianity was of a strong evangelical, even charismatic, persuasion, fed by the East African Revival of the 1930s and a spontaneous “movement of the Holy Spirit” throughout many Roman Catholic churches in the 1970s.
It's not enough that the Christian organizations remained silent. The Church's people were active participants:

[23] Sins of Commission. Perhaps most chilling are the sins of commission in which individual actors, laity and clergy of Christian institutions, actively participate in - even organize - the killings. While present in the Holocaust (clergy members were even found in the membership of the Einsatzgruppen killing units) and Bosnian genocide, these sins of commission are most extensively documented in Rwanda (see Waller: 67). It was in Rwanda that many of the worst massacres occurred in churches and mission compounds where Tutsis had sought refuge. It is very likely that more people were killed in church buildings than anywhere else in Rwanda (see Longman). From the beginning of the genocide, human rights groups charged that some church leaders from various denominations used their authority to encourage the massacres and join in the killing. Ian Linden also contends that there “. . . is absolutely no doubt that significant numbers of prominent Christians were involved in the killings, sometimes slaughtering their own church leaders” (50).
And more,

Seventh-Day Adventist pastor Elizaphan Ntakirutimana was the first church leader to be brought to trail at the ICTR. In Feburary 2003, the ICTR found it proven beyond reasonable doubt that Ntakirutimana had transported armed Hutu killers to a church and hospital in the Kibuye region of western Rwanda, where they killed hundreds of Tutsi refugees who had been encouraged by Ntakirutimana to seek refuge there. At his trial, a British prosecutor stated: “Dressed in his customary suit and tie, Pastor Ktakirutimana watched as people where shot and beaten to death, encouraging the killers to ensure no one survived” (Reuters new report, 19 September 2001; accessed at that day).
From the conclusions of the report:

[43] In his analysis of the role of Christian churches in the Holocaust and in Rwanda, David Gushee argues “. . . that the presence of churches in a country guarantees nothing. The self-identification of people with the Christian faith guarantees nothing. All of the clerical garb and regalia, all of the structures of religious accountability, all of the Christian vocabulary and books, all of the schools and seminaries and parish houses and Bible studies, all of the religious titles and educational degrees - they guarantee nothing” (28).
For a supposed God-given morality, why does it not appear to be used? Why are faith-based groups responsible for some of the worst atrocities in history? Where is God in all this? Silent as usual, wringing his apparently powerless hands.

Of course the above pattern is not isolated to the 20th century. With little effort we see the same evidence over and over again throughout the centuries.

I believe Christians like to think they they are part of an ideology distinct from (and superior to) an ideology that can produce a 9/11 (tiny in comparison) or a Darfur. As the facts show, this is sadly not the case. From demolition of the pagans and heretics, to the Crusades, the Inquisition, witch burnings, and modern genocide, it's a sorry story of violence, oppression and hatred.

Not only is faith delusional. It is evil.

Not only is faith delusional it is EVIL!

Of course one might be tempted to give this guy the benifit of a doubt. O surely he doesn't mean all Christians. He does. He actually went on to defend the idea of blaming all Christians for the Holocaust. This is really the first time I've seen them actually blame Christianity for the holocausts. This is a attempt to create a climate of hate in which Christianity is steamed with the image of evil so that is is linked with Hitler and the KKK. This new ploy represents a real turning point for me.

I said this:
Originally Posted by Metacrock View Post
did you know that no atheists hid Jews form nazis. did you know that no atheist died to save Jews from Nazis. Christians did. yes, it was documented by te famous novelist Albert Camus, he was there. He saw it. Christans of the village Lo Chambo died to save Jews, but you just spit on their graves.

btw atheist Camus did not die, he lived to write about it because he bravely hid while others sacrificed themselves.
Is this an example of your massive intellect? Read the article. Make cogent comments for a change.
Atheist Devil responds:

Christians have much to atone for and yet, as you demonstrate, unwilling to acknowledge these Christian organizations' shameful past.

None of the above is remotely relevant.
So the fact that Christians tired to stop the Holocaust is not relevant, all Christians are to blame for it even, I suppose the one's who died fighting it? It's not relevant that the facts contradict his hatred? Notice that he never once tried to qualify his board brush with which he paints of Christianity with these allegations.

another Christian argues:

Originally Posted by Billi View Post
One can also list atheistic dictators... and reach the same conclusion that atheists are evil too? Even Buddhist Japanese invaded China and killed millions!!! So Buddhism or whatever religions the Japanese believe is also evil! Using the same technique, we can probably conclude a LOT of things to be evil.
Atheist Devil comes back:

Atheism is not a dogma, but the absence of one solitary belief, hence it is impossible for atheism to be responsible for anything.

Now theres a sound bit of reasoning for you. We don't have a positive belief, except for the one about saying Christians ar evil but other than that. so we can't can't be held responsible for the lies we spread of the hate we foment. Holy rationalization Batman. Holy lame excuse!

Let's ask ourselves why would anyone want to blame a whole belief system for th major evils of humanity then absolve themselves from the responsibility of ignoring history history's and spreading lies and hatred? If it was just a matter of critiquing institutions or historical figures that would be one thing. But to blame all Christians, faith itself for the most evil thing any human ever did, isn't that just going over the top a a bit? what could possibly motivate someone to spread this level of hate unless they were seeking to create a climate in which all Christians are seen as totally evil. What would someone like that stop at? If he's willing to say this what's his limit?

I think here we see the true colors of the new "atheist fundie." No this more than just a fundie. This is a true fanatic.

Atheist Devil goes on:

does he call me on the assumption that he means all Christians? NO here's what he says to that:

Not so with the "us vs. them" mindset of theists.
He is saying that all Christians are guilt of the Holocaust but we are the one's with the "them and us" mentality?

then he says:

Did you even read the article? Sourced from a Presbyterian University? Obviously Christian organizations were directly culpable in these atrocities.

somehow the fact that the author teaches at a Presbyterian school proves that Christianity is guilty?

What atheist organizations have ever been directly involved in atrocities?

well gee none I guess. I guess Pol pot and Mao and Stalin were just having pic nicks right? yes that's that they were doing out there in Siberia, they were having pc nics!

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Happy Pick nickers at atheist shin dig in USSR

I am greatly saddened by this.It is a turning point. I have said in the past how atheists were shutting down discussion. NOW we see how really truer this is. It is totally pointless to try and discuss rationally with some one who thinks you are totally evil and who seeks your death. there's a reason why Martin Luther Kind did not sit down with the KKK. There's a reason why the Jews didn't try to hist sit down with Hitler. Anthropologists have recognized in the past that witch hunts stop when the hunters outreach their credibility by going after those who are clearly not guilty of the accusations. McCarthy began to be shunned when he tried to imply that Esienhauer was a community.

Atheists have shut down discussion. The extremists are tying to say that Christiantiy is as evil as Hitler. These people have made their choice in eternity, there's no point in trying to reach them. We need to get out of the process of trying to talk to them and let them make fools of themselves. But we need to keep track of what they are doing and expose their extremists lunacy to show how exaggerated they have become. But I will longer seek to reach them. From this point on I do not talk to athesits. they wnat to kill me.


Anonymous said...

"Atheists have shut down discussion"

It may not be so much them.

J.L. Hinman said...

yes, I've always thought those Unitarians are real trouble makers.