Saturday, May 27, 2006

Why Dosn't God heal Stupidity?

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I continue to get comments on this.It seems atheists are so very stuck on thier little excuse. This is a sure fire excuse because there's not likely to be any real refutation in terms of big examples of amputees getting limbs back, and they don't have to think very deeply.Just decalir God not to exist and move on. But it's totally irrational way God has to make limbs grow back when any miracle will prove God exists. It's also irrational way a new pair of lungs grown overnight isn't good enough? why is a new limb they thing that will do? that is totally irrational.

I still get comments on this, but I will tell, save your fingers because I will not post them.


I continue to be concerned about what is happening in the atheist community. Since I'm perceived as an enemy of their community, or at least not member, they tend to not listen to me. I have hinted at the pure hatred I've found vented against me while seeking good message board discussion. Now I find a website that is so brazen in its attempt to wish away God that it really exceeds anything I thought I would see. They have developed a real talisman which is a magic formula to wish God away. It's a magic King's X. Here is a problem no Christian can answer, and until one does, God is disproved. How? By wishing:


from "why wont God Heal Amputees?




Think about it this way. The Bible clearly promises that God answers prayers. For example, in Mark 11:24 Jesus says, "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." And billions of Christians believe these promises. You can find thousands of books, magazine articles and Web sites talking about the power of prayer. According to believers, God is answering millions of their prayers every day. Prayer seems to be especially powerful in the medical arena -- God eliminates cancers, kills viruses, reverses the effects of poisons, heals internal organs, repairs injuries, etc.

The question, therefore, is simple: If God promises to answer prayers, and if God is healing cancers and solving all of these other problems in response to prayer, then what happens if we pray to God to restore amputated limbs?

It is easy to see what happens: Nothing. You can simply look at the world with a scientific eye and note that amputees' limbs are never restored through prayer. If you want to be more rigorous, you can search every medical journal electronically. You will find that there has never been a documented case of an amputated limb spontaneously regenerating.




wow, empirical proof! Right before your eyes, God is proven not to exist, and scientific experiment the whole works. Now why didn't I think to do that?

I have also ventured onto their message board. I find there a very curious thing. I was immediately attacked as a troll. All the threads are bitter attacks against Christianity. I was trying to raise civil discussion about certain issues. Now in all fairness the administration did not tell me I was doing wrong. In fact they were very fair. But the posters unanimously attacked me. I find they define troll as "sowing discord" and that means raising questions they don't want to hear. I am not making this up. They are so battered and bruised by apologists that they can't allow a contrary view. They just want to be left alone to simmer in their juices and hate God in peace. One guy said to me, when out flanked with gobs of evidence, "you are are just raising things we've put to rest before." The issue was my temporal beginning argument. They argue that there is no such thing as cause and effect. They also argue that time is not marked by change, but change is marked by time. So causes don't' proceed effects and the future is acting upon the past. If that's the case how can they tell if amputees are healed or not? Maybe the time before they lost their limbs is their healing?

The site goes on:


Why would Jesus promise to answer prayers in so many places in the Bible, yet completely ignore every single prayer to regenerate a lost limb?





(1) The Bible promises to give us anything we want in prayer

(2) This doesn't work

(3) therefore there is no God.

The hallmark of the argument is punctuated by the "close your eyes, pray real hard fora bannan split to appear before you...did it? No. see, God is imaginary, this proves it." I prayed for a banana split, and I got one. Just my luck it as "Flegal" from the old "bannsplit" live actor Saturday morning cartoon of the late 60's.


There are several fallacies involved here:


(1) Bad assumption about the nature of God


The assume is that God is big wish fulfillment machine in the sky, or Santa clause or Dr. feelgood to old grandfather just waiting to give us whatever we want. The Bible never promises any such thing.It also assumes that God is the God of the fundie, big guy on a thorne who thinks through ratiocination and who is just waiting for each of us as him for a pink Cadillac.

God is none of those things. Prayer and healing or not happiness dispensers. The point of healing is never just the particular individual who get's healed. The point people make "why doesn't God empty all the hospitals" is part of the general theodicy problem (the problem of pani and evil) and that is still answered by my soteriolgoical drama argument. I suggest you read it this time. Prayer is communion with God. Petitioning and imploring God for aid are part of that process but they are not the only part. God heals out of compassion but always with a larger plan in mind. God is not seeking to empty the hospitals. Read the link and see why.

http://www.geocities.com/metacrock2000/Theology/Theodicy1.html

(2) Bad assumptions about the Bible.



this site takes the most literalistic approach. The bible said it, I believe, (except I don;t but to prove a point) and that settles it. what a fundie! The person who wrote that site has a narrow literalistic reading of scripture that would put the most narrow fundes to shame.

There are verses that say things like "if you believe and do not doubt you can say to that mountain be cast into the sea and it will be." But, barring interpolation, which is entirely possible I really haven't checked, these are clearly not literal passages. Why? Mountains are usually symbolic in the Bible, so moving mountains is a symbol of moving problems, moving obstructions. It's clearly hyperballie, because said moving would clearly depend upon God's purpose.

James "says why don't you get want you want when you pray? Because you pray amiss. Why? you pray selfishly and without faith. God is not a wish machine.

If I was an inerrantist and thought there could be no mistakes in the Bible that might be a point. But the Bible is not a memo dictated from the "big man upstairs." The Bible is a collection of writngs which reflect human/divine encounter. Some of these are directly inspried in vergabe, some are not. Some are mythical some are poetic some are historical. We can't just assume this say this therefore that's that. It's only a problem for an inerentist.


(3) False assumptions about healing



A lot of people assume that healing is just to cure all sickness and God isn't up to it. Or that God would heal everyone he has some petty motive, people or too sinful, or something.. The point of healing is not to end all sickness. The point is the relation between the spiritual and the way the sick person is guided in life. this sort of answer is mocked by that website because it requires subtle understanding. It's easier to mock things rather than try and understand complex subtleties. God is trying to bring together everything in our lives at a point that will give us the optimum chance to know him, to get our lives together and to find ourselves.

this process requires a lot of things. One must be "in the zone" to be healed. What is that? (my own term, not standard theological parlance). Several things have to stack up at once, not just faith, although that is one, but also being in God's timing, and other things.we don't necessarily know all the things that have to stack up. The overall point is that God uses healing like a tool toward a higher purpose, it's not just chart Blanch on healing.


(4) False assumptions about amputees


I don't know that God doesn't heal amputees. I'm sure it's rare, but then it just stands to reason that it would take a lot of faith. Jesus said you only need a little (mustard seed) but he also said you have to use it. It would take a lot of faith to equal a little at times.

Atheists complain about how one never hears of healing amputees. When I do hear of such things, or similar things (growing new lungs, revitalized and raised from the dead from skeleton) all they do is complain about the sources. I can't blame them on the latter. The lungs thing is good evidence. although not best evidence. this is a hobby we have to make due.


St. Anthony is said to have healed amputees, but of course they have a ready made "out" on that one because its' so old it must be a legond! But they can no longer say "I never hear of it." If there is some special reason why God just doesn't heal amputees, and I don't believe there is other than what I've described, it might be that there are natural structures and structures have their limits. But I don't think it wise to limit God and say "God can't do this" Or God doesn't do this. He can, maybe he does, but not often and not around reporters.


The "why doesn't God heal Amputees" site has answers that are suppossedly aimed at the kind of complex spiriutally based answer I've given. Of course they fall woefully short because the author insitss upon making everything as shallow as possilbe.

Here's one of the so called "stock answers." Most of them are not what I argued, but here's oen that's somewhat close, although like I saud, it reduces a complex position to stupidified simplicity.



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Here is another explanation that you might have heard: "God needs to remain hidden -- restoring an amputated limb would be too obvious." We will discuss this idea in more detail in later chapters, but let's touch on it here. Does God need to remain hidden?




Now is the idea that God needs to be hidden? It's really that there has to be a choice between faith and doubt. There has to be a search in the heart so the values of God are internalized. That's not quite the same as saying "God has to be hidden." Because in that view God can make himself known but in such a way that some faith is still required.






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That does not seem to be the case. In general, God seems to have no problem doing things that are obvious. Think about the Bible. Writing the Bible and having billions of copies published all over the world is obvious.




It would be if God really did it. But using people to do it is kind of a failsafe isn't it? If God really did that then why don't you believe/ Duh? Because he used people. See how it works? Isn't that clever?




Quote
So is parting the Red Sea. So is carving the Ten Commandments on stone tables.


Except that it was so long ago and so far away, no one around today saw it. So it's like it didn't happen. what do you need to believe? Hmmm? (the "F" word right?)



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So is sending your son to earth and having him perform dozens of recorded miracles. And so on. It makes no sense for a God in hiding to incarnate himself, or to do these other obvious things. Why send your son to earth, and then write a book that talks all about his exploits, if you are trying to hide?



so why don't you believe? If it's all so obvious why are you an atheist?


don't you see how shallow this is? this is not the way to think about this stuff! He's taking the easy targets the stupid people the most fundie ideas, the most ignorant ideas and he's simplified the intelligent ideas so they don't mean anything anymore. playing fast and loose with the facts and just ignoring any kind of obvious refutation.







Quote
In the same way, any medical miracle that God performs today is obvious. The removal of a cancerous tumor is obvious because it is measurable. One month the tumor is visible to everyone on the X-ray, and the next month it is not. If God eliminated the tumor, then it is openly obvious to everyone who sees the X-ray. There is nothing "hidden" about removing a tumor. So, why not regenerate a leg in an equally open way? If God intervenes with cancer patients to remove cancerous tumors in response to prayers, then why wouldn't God also intervene with amputees to regenerate lost limbs?




It still has deniability. that's obvious because you deny it.

If that's so obvious what makes you think you wouldn't deny healing an amputee?


also let's be sure not to forget the way the site over simplifies the statments about "promises to work miracles." Almost all of them are figurative, metaphor. Clearly moving mountains is not literal even Jesus never did that. Mountains are often symbols in the Bible.

I will give you the desires of your heart doesn't mean if you want a milk shake to appear before you magically it will. God never promises to be a little magic genie and give you any wish you want.

Quote
Some people might say, "Everyone's life serves God in different ways. Perhaps God uses amputees to teach us something. God must have a higher purpose for amputees." That may be the case -- God may be trying to send a message. But, again, it seems odd that he would single out this one group of people to handle the delivery. To quote Marilyn Hickey once again:




My argument wasnt' God is trying to teach you something, but that God puts us in the optimum sitaution to be drawn to him. That's not quite the same. So there may be some people for whom losing a limb does this, but I woudlnt' try to hang that lable on all amputees.

Most of these arguments have to be subtle because you lable people with them and if the lable doesnt' fit you can hur them.


Quote
No matter what has happened in your past, no matter what is happening in your present, seek out your heavenly Father in prayer as often as you can. Take my word for it -- He loves you and wants to answer your prayers. [ref]
You see this logic all the time in inspirational literature and hear it every Sunday at thousands of churches: "God loves you! God hears your prayers and will answer them for you!" See this article for an example. Yet, for some reason, miracles never happen when it comes to regenerating lost limbs. It does not seem to make sense that amputees would be cut off from the blessings that Jesus promises in the Bible. And it also does not mesh with all of the prayers that Jesus seems to be answering for other people.




so he's assuming that amputees are just amputees, they have no other aspects to their lives. so if they don't get the limbs regenerated its all over. But I said there may be SOME people for whom losing a limb can help them come to palce where they find God. I dont' know how I'm only asuming it for soem.

why should we not assume God loves us/ If we feel the love of God and changes our lives and makes us better, why should we not assume this is true, that God loves us?

But to say God doens't love this one group because he wonjt chang ethis one thing (and I dont' know that he wont) is just shoallow. Those are people. God can answers any number of prayers they pray and heal them in any number of ways, Just he doens't do that one thing, if indeed he doesn't. I'm not convneced the premise is




I know God is real and I know that I know that I know. I've experienced the power of God and I know. I was an atheist, that's why I got saved. I was a very skeptical thoughtful atheist. But the power of God was stronger than my obstinate streak

Be sure and check out my miracle pages with good scientific evidence that God heals.

God Heals everbody in one way or another

37 comments:

Patrick Dunnevant said...

Hey, good article! Marshall Brain and his arguments never cease to amuse me.

If you'd like, you should check out my blog: Brain is Ignorant where I'm beginning to go through his God is Imaginary website and refute each "proof". Help would be appreciated!

beepbeepitsme said...

'No health benefit' from prayer
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3193902.stm

J.L. Hinman said...

http://equalitycentral.com/forum/privmsg.php?folder=inbox


that's one study vs 14 that say otherwise. It's also countered by hudnreds of mircles saint making and at Lourdes.

beepbeepitsme said...

I think the process of believing in something might encourage a feeling of wellness. It might encourage seratonin levels for example.

But I am yet to see any conclusive scientific evidence where god/ allah/odin or thor cured anyone.

J.L. Hinman said...

beepbeepitsme said...
I think the process of believing in something might encourage a feeling of wellness. It might encourage seratonin levels for example.


>>no way that would growing a new pair of lungs overnight.



But I am yet to see any conclusive scientific evidence where god/ allah/odin or thor cured anyone.

You haven't read the lourdes evidence. It's linked on the current blog page.

J.L. Hinman said...

you also said in email that some link doesn't work. which? I find they all work for me.

CalledByGod said...

The question is "What is there to Heal?".

Healing is a proccess to close mend. Which I believe most amputees have.

Now the real question is "Why" did they get there limbs amputated?.....Did it save thier life?

If so did not God actually give the amputee's "Life" back?

Everyone looks at the loss, but the real miracle I bet in any story of an amputee, is that the amputation "saved" thier Life!!!

So my question is "Isn't the true miracle, the fact that God helped them save thier Life, by the amputation?

Anonymous said...

Atheists are very scientifically minded. They came to their beliefs through careful thought and lack of scientific evidence in a God. If you are going to have any luck convincing an atheist, you will need to back up one of your cases with visual and scientific proof meaning x-rays, pictures and doctors notes. You have anecdotes on your site but I personally did not notice any pictures or x-rays where you can physically see a visual change from unhealthy to healthy. I think the spontaneous regeneration of a lung would be very good evidence for something supernatural, do you have x-rays of this? Do you think an atheist is going to believe you if you have no visual scientific evidence and doctors notes to back up your claim?

J.L. Hinman said...

My site is loaded with evdience and I've kicked atheist asses on message all over the net for years with that stuff.

Anonymous said...

well,

If God healed an amputee today, here is what would happen.
1. Said Amputee would be declared a fraud and master illusionist, they would associatte him somehow with studying under an illusionist somehow. He would be asked to give back every dollar he ever received from the goverment with interest. If the injury happened as a soldier, his honorable discharge and medals would be stripped away.
2. Said Amputee would be ridiculed for not submitting himself to rigorous medical research to discover how he grew his limb back on his own as this would be the missing evidence for the theory of evolution and he would be declared his own species. (an indian Guru from this century was actually criticized as such.)
3. Said Amputee would be hunted down and killed by extremist like the one's who hunted Lazarus for being raised from the Dead by Jesus. (I don't think they actually killed Lazarus, but they alledgedly tried to.)
4. After all was said and done, because the amputee wanted to maintain his privacy and peace and would only share it in restricted Christian circles to avoid further harrassment, it would get the stamp of URBAN LEGEND like so many other miracles and findings and that would be the end of that. Everyone goes on with life the same as ever. That is if the guy isn't killed first.

-themoderateextremist

J.L. Hinman said...

I have not heard that about Lazarus, where did you read it? I'm not disputting it, just interested.

michael said...

for some reason that site really challenged my faith, but your response has restored my belief in God and taught me to turn the other way when the devil tries to convince me that God isn't real with shallow, poorly founded arguments

J.L. Hinman said...

Praise God! I am very glad to hear that.

Anonymous said...

Jesus performed feeding and healing miracles, but shooed away the people who followed him just to benefit from his ability to feed and heal. We can assume that God would still feel the same way about modern-day people who would (hypothetically) become "Christians" to benefit from devine protection and miraculous healings rather than to humbly believe and submit to his Lordship and receive the spiritual cleansing he offers. Thus, he would not "advertise" so obviously today (he does just fine without having to resort to it), though when Christ was on Earth it was necessary to work obvious miracles in order to establish his divinity to humanity.

Anonymous said...

I HATE TO SOUND ELITEST, BUT TRYING TO ARGUE WITH MOST OF THOSE PEOPLE ON THOSE SITES ARE CASTING PEARLS TO SWINE, THE WORST PART OF IT ALL IS THE FLAWED LOGIC DAMAGING HONEST, CURIOUS, SEEKERS PATH TO GOD, THE "SCIENTIFIC METHOD" THEY CLAIM TO USE ISN'T EVEN SCIENTIFIC. YOU NEVER ARRIVE AT A FINITE CONCLUSION B/C OF ONE OUTCOME. ITS LIKE TURNING THE KEY ON YOUR CAR AND IT DOESN'T START, SO YOU CONCLUDE RIGHT THEN WITHOUT LOOKING, THAT THE TOOTH FAIRY STOLE THE WHOLE ENIGINE BLOCK FROM UNDER THE HOOD THE NIGHT BEFORE WHILE YOU WERE SLEEPING. WHEN THERE COULD BE A NUMBER OF RESONS WHY YOUR CAR WONT START. ALSO IF THERE WERE AN AMPUTEE HEALED BY GOD, WHY WOULD IT HAVE TO BE IN A ELECTRONIC MEDICAL TEXT. MOST MIRACLES THAT HAVE HAPPENED HAVE NOT BEEN IN, OR EVEN DOCUMENTED BY THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY WHO REJECT THE VERY IDEA OF THE MIRACLE CONCEPT. I PERSONALLY STRUGGLE WITH BELIEF IN GOD BUT I'M NOT SO IGNORANT AS TO MAKE ON SWEEPING ASSUMPTION ON ONE POSSIBLY UNPROVEN OUTCOME. ALSO BRAIN SAYS THAT PRAYER DOESN'T WORK BUT THERE ARE NUMEROUS OBJECTIVE LIBERAL UNIVERITY STUDIUS SHOWING THAT IT DOES. JUST GOOGLE IT.

J.L. Hinman said...

please dont' shout. all caps is cnsistered shouting in the internet world.

Makes youk look like a hysterical fool.

Anonymous said...

I was using a saw and accidently cut an inch of my finger off. The doctors could not re-attach. My question is, will you go to church, stand in front of your congregation and ask them to pray to grow my finger back to its original shape?
God says we can pray for anything. Would you feel weird asking your church congregation this question. Why?

Dan said...

As a born again Christian, from the NE, i am one that is skeptical of claims of healing, and have not heard of an amputee being healed, but i do know i was healed of a real, and troublesome hernia that i had for a few years and that did not get better. After a humble couple prayed over me, next thing i knew it was gone. And the refrigerators and washing machines i have carried since prove it.

Here are some links of miracles which those who despise Moses will scorn.

*Watch
http://www.cbn.com/700club/features/amazing/
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4136610474021109864
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6547221602055506348&q=mickey+robinson&total=57&start=0&num=50&so=0&type=search&plindex=1
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3682855866783766146

Read
http://www.christian-faith.com/truestories.html
http://www.truthsaves.org/testimony/
http://www.miraclebook.org/reviews.html
http://www.shelovesgod.com/library/testimonies.cfm
http://breadsite.org/topics.htm

XweAponX said...

I first came across the question "Why Won't GOD heal Amputees" in a yootoob video somewhere.

I thought that was the most stoopid question I have ever seen poised.

The dolt who asked that question, fails miserably to mention that in the cases of amputees, that IS the freakin healing.

Amputation is not a desease, its a &%&%$ cure.

Stoopid moronz

Iced said...

An interesting article in many ways. It is certianly true that the 'other' site does take the Bible as literal truth, yet that is hardly a unique stance is it? The RC church takes literally Jesus' blood and body and most of the fundamentalist churches do too.

the problem of healing, though, is a tough one for anyone to takle. Whilst as a long-term paraplegic I quite agree that healing consists of more than physical healing, (quite a lot more if there is no physical healing!) we do seem to have promises from Jesus which are not fulfilled. I don't think the rationalise healing into just internal healing helps much. I mean, experiments with groups of patients being prayed for or not being prayed for show no difference in outcome. now maybe the experiments were not large enough and God only heals a very few people but that only leads to why so few to be asked.

The fact is, God virtually all of the time fails to deliver any response to prayer and certainly not what a Loving Father might be expected to do. The biblical texts don't hedge the question but state baldly that if we ask in prayer God will give. This is an important question for many families who face the illness of a loved one and one for which a much better answer is called for.

I would seriously suggest that, rather than knocking another site, it would be very helpful to the faithful to see something that helps them to understand why their prayers never get answered or how one might get an answer. I am not alone, I am sure, in feeling that after 25 years in a wheelchair I have somehow been ignored by God. The solution to belief at this point would help many people but might start to fill emptying churches too.

Anonymous said...

The Bible does state that He will give you the desires of your heart, but please back up a bit and read what it states before that, "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and all of these things will be added unto you. Matt 6:33. Maybe we should all seek God's kingdom first before we give Him our laundry list of wants. Drawing near to Him changes the way we think, and it may change the desires of your heart.

Also I feel very strongly that we are not correct in our assumptions about how God heals, Jesus clearly stated that we shall do even greater things (miracles) than He did. He also gave us the authority in His name to do such. Does a police man ask the judge to stop the speeders? No he takes the authority given to him/her by the law and stops them him/her self. I believe we are also that way when it comes to healing. Jesus did not pray for God to heal people, He commanded it, as we should in His name.

Just a couple of thoughts.

Markus said...

Were I a healed amputee, I would keep the **** silent. I don't want to be probed by a load of doctors and scientists. Neither do I want to be on the news or all over the internet.

Kai said...

well said markus that goes well with what annonymous said about said amputees.

Wasnt there a story in the Bible and Jesus healing someone and then commanding them not to say anything to anyone?
http://www.gotquestions.org/do-not-tell.html

I am sure that should an amputee have been miraculously healed then they would begin to think why it would be a good idea not to tell anyone.

But i would put my house and home on it that person would preach the good news until his/her dying day.

As for the athiests that say God doesnt exist and use this as a reason and ask me to proove that it has happened I ask them to proove to me that is has NOT happened.

Mephistopheles said...

The fact still stands that the Bible is wrong since it claims, in numerous verses in different books, that prayer will be answered in each case and completely. Since this is not true, the Bible is either not perfect, or it's wrong and thus not true. When the Bible claims something as matter-of-factly as something like "if you pray to be healed, you *will* be healed", and that's not true, you can't just use doublethink to explain it away.

J.L. Hinman said...

Meph babby, how did you get out of Goethe's play?

Meph says:

The fact still stands that the Bible is wrong since it claims, in numerous verses in different books, that prayer will be answered in each case and completely.


True to your namesake, you are a liar! It never says that. That's foolish.


Meph:Since this is not true, the Bible is either not perfect, or it's wrong and thus not true.


The only people who have to worry about the bible being perfect are inerrantists. Since I'm not one I guess you didn't bother to read any further on the blog to see where I was coming from?


Meph
When the Bible claims something as matter-of-factly as something like "if you pray to be healed, you *will* be healed",

were does it say that?

J.L. Hinman said...

You know Meph you need to study the things you opposes. You clearly don't enough about it to argue with Christians.

Anonymous said...

The mustard seed is not the smallest seed. You would think Jesus would know that...but apparently he didn't. How odd.

J.L. Hinman said...

The mustard seed is not the smallest seed. You would think Jesus would know that...but apparently he didn't. How odd.

what a stupid comment! A retarted bus boy could think up an answer that would kick that argument in the head. Did it never occur to you O genius that it may have been the smallest in his world? that is in that place at that time?

let's see your documentation on gardening in the frist century Palestine.

J.L. Hinman said...

It's a poetic statement anyway. only an idiot would that's some kind serious problem with the Bible.

Anonymous said...

It is probably pointless for me to post this, but stupidity calls. I haven't read the site myself, so let me just say that first. But I get the gist of it as it was pointed out to me by a friend. I admit the reasoning is flawed, and it's a classic case of good observation leading to a bad conclusion. But in that site, I don't see stupidity, I see pain. I am a Jesus person facing the same exact questions as this guy (from what I understand from a cursory knowledge of the site) and if I am to find any silver lining in my trials, is it that I know exactly what it feels like to be an unbeliever. Before you point the finger at "stupidity," do you consider that someone does not create a site like that without tremendous pain and legitimate disappointment with God. How do you then, as a believer, respond to someone who has been hurt in that way by calling them stupid? Even if you were right, what does that do for the Kingdom? I hope you don't pass through these trials yourself, so you'll never know this firsthand, but the truth is, there's a lot of bad teaching in churches that is well meant, but it's based on our American ideas, and not on what God really taught us in the Bible. That kind of bad teaching has caused Christians to make a lot of excuses for God that He doesn't need, and that leaves others rightly skeptical. And it's left a lot of people disillusioned and wounded. So before diagnosing this guys stupidity, consider the possible source. And consider what will expand the Kingdom.

J.L. Hinman said...

First of all, do not assume that I wont post your comments.If you are not attacking someone personally I will post them regardless of what I think of them. If you quote Mary Had a LIttle lamb I'll posit as long as you are not attacking Mary or the lamb.

But this is a good post. You have make an important point. My disgruntlement with the site is not because he has doubt, it's because he mocks and ridicules those who try to have faith and he refuses to think deeply about the issues.

I think your post is so important I am going to address it in the main blog section as part of a new post. Please look for that as I would like to communicate with you.

minor problem: posting under the name "anonymous" is against my rules, but I'll make an exception. in the future please choose a screen name that will designate you apart form the other 34 "anonymous" posters I have.

Malibu Michael Murphy said...

Very good and courageous! I have never felt so Alienated as when I came out of the closet about being a Catholic. No one would dare endorse Anti-semitism, gay-bashing and other forms of Bigotry but when it comes to Catholicism it’s open season. We even get it from the Fundamentalists. Philip Jenkins calls Anti-Catholicism: The Last Acceptable Prejudice. Historian Arthur Schlesinger Sr. has called Anti-Catholicism "the deepest-held bias in the history of the American people." Keep up the good fight! More Murders have been cited in the last 100 years to Athiests then in 2000 years of Christianity, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot!
Recent documents uncovered for the Maoist and Stalinist regimes, it now seems the high end of estimates of 250 million dead (between 1900-1987) are closer to the mark. The Stalinist Purges produced 61 million dead and Mao's Cultural Revolution produced 70 million casualties. These murders are all upon their own people! This number does not include the countless dead in their wars of outward aggression waged in the name of the purity of atheism's world view. China invades its peaceful, but religious neighbor, Tibet; supports N. Korea in its war against its southern neighbor and in its merciless oppression of its own people; and Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge kill up to 6 million with Chinese support. All of these actions done "in the name of the people" to create a better world.

Anonymous said...

The Bible commandss us to be Wise as Serpents (dragons) and harmless as Doves.

Cast not your pearls before swine.

(We need to know when to engage legitimate people in conversation and when not to approach a slavering dog)

Faith commeth by hearing and hearing the word of GOD. (Unfortuneately most unbeleivers fail to hear the word. They read it but dont study it and I doubt they step foot in a church. This renders their faith in the less than a mustard seed level.)

Unto much is given much is required
(you want healed?...how much faith and love do you have for your Creator. Mocking him does no good...hes not Mocked...If you have neither faith or love your back to square one)

The main reason people claim there is no GOD is so they can make the rules. If there is no GOD then Murder, Rape, Theft, Abortion, and Sexually deviant behavior has no negative ramifications especially after death. You just cease to exist in their mind. But in reality every man is appointed a measure of faith. That is they know in their core right from wrong. It is the Social Darwinists that claim rape is a means to spread DNA. In the minds of many of them its a good thing despite the emotional trauma inflicted on the victim.

Does GOD interfere with man?...not always...its called free will...

Why wont GOD stop crime, murder, war, rape, etc. Its not his job! He directed us to take care of this stuff. The true question is why do we tolerate nasty despots world wide like Robert Mugabee and Hugo Chavez who kill with passion? Why do we patronize and baby the rapists and murderers in our prison system? If we as a society cracked down on these types there would be less of it with severe penalties in place.

In Timothy the Bible warns a nation that turns her back on GOD's Laws. Crime, Death, Disease, Rape, Delinquent youths,War, Etc would result.

Make inmates in prision work for their food by tilling the field that grows it. Put them in tent cities without AC and hot water.
No libraries, no Cable, you are being punished its not a resort!
This will minimize your crime and quick.

As for Healing I have witnessed numerous healings. I witnessed a man with a club foot healed. His shorter leg literaly grew to the length of the other (Killeen Texas) I was healed of nerve damage in my back. (Killeen Tx again) My Grandmother was healed of Cancer. (Fairbourne OH)
Numerous healings of Terminal Cancer, from the lower GI to Lungs...The Deaf have been healed in front of me, I have seen Crippled walk some first time ever some as long as 8 years after an accident...(Melbourne Fl)

The nay sayers dont want to believe. If they do then they have to stop engaging in vice and lifestyles contrary to the word of GOD. That is their choice. Question is, can you afford to be wrong. Everyone will eventually die! As for me and my house we will serve the LORD.

BKB

Dr No said...

The concept of "God" is ever more so as infinite and a conundrum like religious belief in general. One wonders what the point of all of it might be? A phony sense of righteousness and morality? What can be matter, insanity and stupidity are traits of humanity, there is no dividing line upon belief. The notion of God simply cannot matter. Humans are ignoble, ignorant and dull minded and religion has increased those traits as much or more so than any other empty cause and human circus.

Metacrock said...

In answering your comments one might just repeat the title of the OP.

I am going to answer this in a coupel of days in the main blog post.

Anonymous said...

Hey. I enjoyed the read but there are quite a few typos. I haven't read any other comments so if this is a repeat critique, I apologize in advance. Take care.

Metacrock said...

That was way back in the days before I used firefox so it was harder for me to catch and correct typos with my dyslexia. I think I have much fewer now that I use firefox. But thanks for pointing it out.