Atheist Watch Is my new Blog where I will chart the progress of the New Atheism in critical terms. Part of the mission of Atheist Watch is to keep track of the New Atheism. I will also present arguments about major atheist ideas and others things pertaining to events connected with the atheist movement. I will use this blog for positive things. Here is where I will put God arguments and analyze ideas and constructs. But Atheist Watch will be used much as old Blog Fundie Watch was used. I hope Atheist Watch gets more traffic. Almost no one ever looked at Fundie Watch.
33 comments:
I was not allowed to post this on your other blog, but I don't think anyone could call a particular movement a "hate group." Take for example, anti-immigration. The movement, and least in my mind, is based on legitimate concerns, but there are certainly certain organizations that fall under the banner of "hate group" within that movement.
I think that there are two possible points at which an organization becomes a hate group. One, they advocate violence or vandalism(for intimidation) of people they don't like. Two (like Fred Phelp's group), they find no line short of violence which it is innapropriate to cross. I.E., those who we don't like deserve no peace, especially on their sacred days. They will harrass their targets at every chance they get.
At this point I am imagining people picketing a funeral with signs saying "there is no heaven" or "your husband's just plain dead" or "your mother is in the blank state forever". With what I've heard, it doesn't sound impossible, or far off.
Also, Meta, have you heard of the James Dee article "the silver bullet that kills the immortal soul"? Basically it talks about the question of at what point in history did God give humans souls, or from what point in history will God take humans for the final resurrection. I know we should be skeptical when someone boasts their case as a "knock out" argument, but he claims that there is no refutation if you accept evolution, and I was wondering if you had any thoughts or already dealt with similar questions.
I was not allowed to post this on your other blog,
I thought I had the thing configured to allow comments. I'll look again. Please try to post there latter, I want comments.
but I don't think anyone could call a particular movement a "hate group." Take for example, anti-immigration. The movement, and least in my mind, is based on legitimate concerns, but there are certainly certain organizations that fall under the banner of "hate group" within that movement.
yea that's what I'm saying. If you look at the articles I've said each time that I'm not saying the whole of atheism is a hate group.
I think that there are two possible points at which an organization becomes a hate group. One, they advocate violence or vandalism(for intimidation) of people they don't like. Two (like Fred Phelp's group), they find no line short of violence which it is inappropriate to cross. I.E., those who we don't like deserve no peace, especially on their sacred days. They will harass their targets at every chance they get.
what about when they exist to hate people? what about when they exist to share and build their hatred, that seems to me to make them a hate group.
atheists already do harass at every juncture, look at the guy mocking the burning church. Look at them mocking Christians on 9/11.
At this point I am imagining people picketing a funeral with signs saying "there is no heaven" or "your husband's just plain dead" or "your mother is in the blank state forever". With what I've heard, it doesn't sound impossible, or far off.
they are almost doing that on the net.
Also, Meta, have you heard of the James Dee article "the silver bullet that kills the immortal soul"? Basically it talks about the question of at what point in history did God give humans souls, or from what point in history will God take humans for the final resurrection.
sliver bullet? More like the magic bullet. Hardly matters and certainly not hard to come up with answers. The the kind of little piddling problem that says to me "here's someone who never read the works any major theologian.
I know we should be skeptical when someone boasts their case as a "knock out" argument, but he claims that there is no refutation if you accept evolution, and I was wondering if you had any thoughts or already dealt with similar questions.
aside from it being stupid? The should is not a little Casper the frinedly ghost livign inside us. Its' a symbol. Look at the word used to mean soul in the OT and look at how many times it is used as a synonym for life or being alive, especially in psalms. It's symbol for the over all life of the believer in relation to God.
so we do not have souls. they don't have to "put in side us." We ARE souls. WE have always been souls because we have always had some kind of relationship to God. When we were hairy hominids learning to walk upright we were souls.
11:18 PM
It was set to allow only those with google accounts to post. Now it is set up to let everyone post. Anonymous will be glad to hear that since that allows anon posts.
"...no explanation can tell us why we find them moral or how to justify them as 'oughts.'"
Unproven assertion.
*yawn*
Next!
Atheism is about love of logic, not hatred of religion, my good sir.
Sure, there are a few individuals who are feed up with what my people are going through, but honestly who are you to say we're not good people?
Just because we don't believe this "proof" that there's a bearded sky daddy handed down from thousands and thousands of years ago doesn't make us bad. Bastardizations of the truth perpetrated by delusional(but I'm sure, very nice) people make us seem bad.
We're a hate group?
Is that so? when have I, this supposed member of a hate group harassed someone?
My name is AliceRose and I am a your typical peaceful Atheist.
Anyway, I hope you see the real connection between Santa and god.
Good luck to ya, Mr. MeanyPants.
Hi Alice. I am going to answer this in the main blog section. It will be the next post. So watch and comment.
Your comments are welcome.
I think you have mistaken a plea to reason and freedom of thought with harassment and hatred. I am an atheist and in no way do I condone any acts of hatred. On the other hand I think that for any religious person to be offended or angry when someone questions their beliefs is excellent proof of the unstable understanding that person has of their own belief system! If you were so sure there was a god then you wouldn't be angry when people asked you to prove it, you would be quite willing to explain your reasoning and to show that person why you are the way you are. The thing is, the argument of whether or not there is a god has gone on for a long time. The question should not be centered on the fact of whether or not there is a god, it should be on what are the results of a populace that believes or doesn't believe. The answer is that people that believe in god are not free. Most people who believe in god are told what to believe and worse yet rationalize all their actions, more dangerously their immoral actions through the word of god. Atheists are given the ability to take control of their lives in as far as one is able and they live life unhindered by fear of the rightness of their actions and the end we all are aware will come to each of us. This gives atheists a lot to think about and also the realization that it is unfair and immoral to step in anyone else's way of pursuing happiness in this short lifetime. Atheists follow their conscience, theists follow a written code that they can always find loopholes in. And this provides an incentive for atheists to try and convince religious types to take control of their lives and to think for themselves!!
I would hope that you will find the inner strength to do the same.
Humble atheist: I may put a longer version of this on atheist watch in the main blogspot section as a new article.
here
If you look back in history and study it with an open-mind (which unfortunately you cannot do coz your god doesn't allow it) you would see that humanity is moving towards less religion, more science ALL the time. It is an evolutionary process, no-one can stop it.
keep fighting your lost battle, humanity of tomorrow will flush books like bible down the toilet, not as a gesture of disrespect, but solely for the purpose of ridding itself of redundant objects.
I wont waste my time answering this crap. You know atheists are only 3% of the world population. From 1.5 to 6% of the U.S. Population but probably about 3% too. The possibly 6% is based upon 3% margin of error.
So It's a fringe group and rabid "Dawkamentalists" like you are a fringe of a fringe.
Just because there is a low percentage of atheists in the world does not mean that we are wrong. I mean let's face it, there is no way to tell if either of us is correct (whether there is or isn't a god). Personally I think it is a shot in the dark to say there is a god and in a way a bit self-centered. You're basically saying "Hey look at me, I'm so perfect and beautiful that my BIG daddy in the sky is going to make everything peachy for me" So naive!!! All those who have actually searched the meaning of their existence have come to the conclusion that the only truth they can come up with is the fabrications of their subjective viewpoint.. nothing more!
Therefore anyone who is trying to convince others of the reality of a god is trying to convince those people to share their complex fantasy. You're a pretty angry guy it seems for someone who thinks that they have the support of a god with them at all times.. what's your angle?? Why do YOU believe in God???
Humble, My answer to your post will be found on Atheist Watch.
Here
If you are interested in another place to debate atheism, you should try:
The Straight Dope Message Board
You can find them at:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/index.php
They have very intense ongoing debates there, especially if you challenge one of their main atheist proponents, whose username there is Der Trihs.
He never seems to back down from his positions, but maybe someone from this blog can make him concede a point or two.
Our sun is one of hundreds of billions in the milky way. Our galaxy is one of hundreds of billions of galaxy. One wonders how did our creator happen to choose OUR piddling planet at that point in time to send his only son to be tortured & killed for OUR sins ?Could he not just say I forgive you ? Actually, it was my mkistake for making such poor sinful creatures You may have noticed that I don't type very well.I chave only one too big finger. Sorry about that.
55 PM
billwalker said...
Our sun is one of hundreds of billions in the milky way. Our galaxy is one of hundreds of billions of galaxy. One wonders how did our creator happen to choose OUR piddling planet at that point in time to send his only son to be tortured & killed for OUR sins ?Could he not just say I forgive you ? Actually, it was my mkistake for making such poor sinful creatures You may have noticed that I don't type very well.I chave only one too big finger. Sorry about that.
I'm going to answer on the main part, as a new blog peice.
why would you think there aren't lots of other planets in the universe that God has relationships with?
Are you suggesting that the creator sends his ONLY son on a sort of Cook's tour of the cosmos to be tortured & killed by the indigenous creatures of countless planets for THEIR presumed sins ?
I do not understand this insistence that Atheists are a 'hate group'.We are the same as christians & they are like us. We're both agreed on the non-existence of a huge number of gods created by our primitive, tribal ancestors. We atheists simply disbelieve in one or a few more than christians. Period ! Try to wrap your mind around this.
my answer to your latter comment about "we are all atheists" is
here
Bill,
the answer to your earlier comments, including the first is here:
Here
Joe, you said reason lead you to Christianity from Atheism. That is exactly what lead me from Christianity to Atheism. Well, that & reading the bible in its entirety & thinking on what I was reading. This was about 65 years ago, & I have not wavered once in my conclusion that organised Religions have been a cause of wars over the centuries. Emperor Constantine thought that creating a new god (Hesus Krisna) would result in no more wars over religion. WRONG! If all Christians, of all sects read the Life of Constantine, all four volumes, Christianity would descend into the wastebin of history, as it so richly deserves.
Joe, you said reason lead you to Christianity from Atheism. That is exactly what lead me from Christianity to Atheism.
reason leads often people in different directions
Well, that & reading the bible in its entirety & thinking on what I was reading. This was about 65 years ago, & I have not wavered once in my conclusion that organised Religions have been a cause of wars over the centuries.
I am betting you did not go to a seminary, you did not learn Biblical languages, you did not seek commentaries or scholarly interpretation. You were probably in a fundie environment right?
what you think is "reason" evaporates under scrutiny. You you think is reason is actually ignorance and knee jerk reaction.
Emperor Constantine thought that creating a new god (Hesus Krisna) would result in no more wars over religion. WRONG! If all Christians, of all sects read the Life of Constantine, all four volumes, Christianity would descend into the wastebin of history, as it so richly deserves.
You threw away the greatest thing there is--a relationship with Jesus--because you were too dense to understand that you can't make Contantine the scpegoat of the ages.
this is one way in which Atheists are just like Hitler. they want to find an all purpose scape goat to explains their failures and problems in terms of "it's all because of religion."
Joe, Just wanted to ask if you have gotten to read much on the pagan origins of Xianity. I have found MANY books on this topic that were enlightening.I know that you'll be even more embittered at hasving wasted all that time & money on mere mythology. And even worse, if you are making a living from religion. it's HARD to walk away. But it is surprizing how MANY former preachers there are. We just got a new member-PHB-40 years a preacher who just could no longer live the lie .Come visit our site- ExChristian.net.
Joe, Please take your nose out of that book of fairy tales & read some goddam HISTORY books. Study the life of Constantine ,esp. his convention at Nicaea in 326CE. HE created your Hesus Krishna, by combining the old druid Hesus with Krishna (Christ in Sanskrit). It was HE who conferred divinity on the two gods he combi8ned into one. His idea was to do away with all that stupid internecine warfare (with which we are STILL plagued 18 centuries later. Your calling me stupid doesn't change history. It only points up your childish petulance when someone disagrees with you. For Krishna sake, GROW UP. Get a life. It's the ONLY one you get.
billwalker said...
Joe, Please take your nose out of that book of fairy tales & read some goddam HISTORY books. Study the life of Constantine ,esp. his convention at Nicaea in 326CE. HE created your Hesus Krishna, by combining the old druid Hesus with Krishna (Christ in Sanskrit). It was HE who conferred divinity on the two gods he combi8ned into one. His idea was to do away with all that stupid internecine warfare (with which we are STILL plagued 18 centuries later. Your calling me stupid doesn't change history. It only points up your childish petulance when someone disagrees with you. For Krishna sake, GROW UP. Get a life. It's the ONLY one you get.
5:07 PM
that is totally imbecilic. your understanding of history is like that of a skin head. you are seem to have the conspiracy view history that Nazi sympathizers have.
I'm going to answer this on Atheist Watch
the word Krishna has absolutely nothing to do with the word "Christ." If you had any knowledge of languages at all you would know that.
I studied Greek for several years, I know that it does not. Christos is Greek i has nothing at all to do with Krishna. that is not the Sanskrit for Christ.
you grow up stupid and learn something.
tJoe, I am,as an optimist feel sure that you will, one day cast off that yoke of Xian dogma, & join us in the joyous freedom of dis-belief of ALL those man-made holy books, all those man-made religions, all those man-made gods.Join us on the ExChristian.net site. We are many hundreds of former Xans of many 'different stripes'. Main line, fundamentalist, evangelical people of all ages & former strongly held beliefs. This includes former preachers, with PHDs in religion. You are welcome to post any & all thoughts-even Xian ones. We all share the right to state our thoughts & all can share in responding to all posts. You may find it helpful in requiring thought, logic, common-sense & reason. Give it a shot, Joe. There is a book that I think may help you. "When God Becomes a Drug.By Bart Aikins. Please vdon't feel that this is a criticism of you. You are a victim- one of countless millions. I am rooting for you.
Bill I'm going to answer this in the main blog space or hope page of this blog. So look for the latest edition.
Bill,
my answer
Joe, You have no idea how much I am hoping that you will see past that book of mean/dirty fairy tales. The bronze age 'produced/ invented' a huge number of 'saviors'. Only 15 or 16 were crucified, the rest were poisoned, hanged or impaled. JC is the composite of these other 'saviors'. He was 'created' at Nicaea, 325CE. If you spent a tenth of the time reading history, that you have wasted reading that book of fairy tales, you would join us at ExChristian.Net. We would love to have you join us in disbelief of an invisible, imaginary deity created by Emperor Constantine.
Joe, I'm still hoping that you'll take a cosmic view of the Cosmos & of the primitive tribal god our ancestors invented during the early iron age. If you need help on this, it's to be had on ExChristian.net,also Atheist Nexus.Reconciling the dogma of Xianity & science, especially Astronomy, is impossible. When one considers the fact of several hundred BILLION galaxies,each with up to several hundred billions in each of them, ours being one of the smaller ones, & of 13.7 BILLION years in existence, the sheer unlikelihood of 'the creator sending his only offspring to be born of a virgin in the early iron age in a dinky town in the middle east, isn't just astronomically unlikely. It's frigging INSANE. Please open your mind to examining the doctrines of Xianity.
billwalker said...
Joe, I'm still hoping that you'll take a cosmic view of the Cosmos & of the primitive tribal god our ancestors invented during the early iron age. If you need help on this, it's to be had on ExChristian.net,also Atheist Nexus.Reconciling the dogma of Xianity & science, especially Astronomy, is impossible. When one considers the fact of several hundred BILLION galaxies,each with up to several hundred billions in each of them, ours being one of the smaller ones, & of 13.7 BILLION years in existence, the sheer unlikelihood of 'the creator sending his only offspring to be born of a virgin in the early iron age in a dinky town in the middle east, isn't just astronomically unlikely. It's frigging INSANE. Please open your mind to examining the doctrines of Xianity.
Bill I really hope you will start reading the things I say. You are so ignornat, this view you have of Christaintiy is so old fashoined get it through your stupid little head it has nothign at all to do wtih modern Christanity!
you are living in the stone age. you thinking of how Christians think is a hundered years behind the times.
I took four classes in astronomy in college. I know more about it than you ever will. the truth about the cosmos being so vast has absolutely nothing against Christianity nothing at all. Its not even the slightest little bitty bit problematic for me because it is not at odds with my faith at all.
Neither is evolution. those things are not problems at all. They are just commonly held beliefs for liberals in all denominations.
Bill you are the poster boy for atheist ignorance. you are a true and really good sample of how ignorantly stupid atheists are and h ow stupid it is not to read what the people with whom you disagree think. Because you get ti wrong every time you open your big stupid ignorant unread mouth.
I'm going to answer this further in the main blog part on Monday and I'm gonna put it in atheists watch too.
if you ever read my posts you would know this. You probably wont read this so you'll keep saying the same stupid things.
here is my full response to this:
please read
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