Showing posts with label Metaphysics. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Metaphysics. Show all posts

Monday, August 31, 2015

The Abductive Version of The TS Argukment (1 of 3).



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The abductive version of the argument can proceed with no references to Derrida whatsoever, although understanding him would no doubt help. The abductive argument


Terms: TS = transcendental signifier. The Signifier is a written word or a sign of some kind that depicts a word.

Transcendental - the aspect of a system that is fundamental to or sumkmarizes the whole; Trancendental Signifier, there fore, refers to words that sum up the whole system of knowledge, they are universal and not culturally constructed, such as matehematics or God.

TSED = the reality to which the TS refers. While Math is a real thing its only the TSED if it is responsible for everything. These are all Derridian terms. Derrida.

(1) Organizing principles are necessary to development of complexity and systems

(2) understanding of organization is necessary, therefore, for explanatory power

(3) Organizing principles are all-pervasive

(4) no property of physicality is known or theoretically plausible to explain either the necessity or all pervasive nature of these transcendental aspects.

(5) Therefore, no one organizing principle explains the whole as do TS's.

(6) Given the all-pervasive and necessary nature of the TS, the fact of a real TSEd best explains the all-pervasive and necessary nature o the OP's and the TS

(in chapter one I establish the link from TSED to God(Deductive argument premises -6-7). Abduction is a form of inference like deduction and induction:

Abduction or, as it is also often called, Inference to the Best Explanation is a type of inference that assigns special status to explanatory considerations. Most philosophers agree that this type of inference is frequently employed, in some form or other, both in everyday and in scientific reasoning. However, the exact form as well as the normative status of abduction are still matters of controversy.
[1]

An example given by Douven: two friends have a falling out. Then they are seen jogging together..[2] You assume they must have reconciled. This assumption is not mandated by the logic of the case. There could be any number of reasons why people who have a falling out would jog together. In deductive reasoning the premises mandate the conclusions. If we know the meaning of the terms and we know the

premises are true the conclusions must be true if they are logically derived. All A's are B. a is an A. Therefore, a is a B. With induction, the premises are not true by definition, but are usually derived as a matter of probability. With abduction the premises may be probable but the real warrant for inference is the explanatory power of the idea not probability per se.[3]Explanatory power is not proof, but it is a guide to inference, as Peter Lipton tells us.

Setting up criteria for understanding “best explanation

According to Lipton not all induction is probability. He draws the line between deductive and inductive at the point where it is no longer impossible for the premises to be true and the conclusions false; when that's the case its deductive. Inductive is weighing probability not proof.[4]Inductive considerations arise out of indeterminism. It is because outcomes are not necessitated that we can have probability. In assessing the nature of the best explanation, Lipton finds that justification supports explanatory power because with indeterminism we can only go by likelihood. If likelihood were the only guide abduction reduces to induction, or a form of it. Rather he finds that we can't construe best as likeliest alone, but we should view abduction as a guide to inference, not as proof. He urges us to see explanatory factors as guides to illuminating likelihood rather than the other way around.[5]To use my own examples: suppose someone argues that its not likely that the former friends are jogging together because they made up; the former friends could be jogging together so that they can insult each other. That doesn't seem believable because one hates conflict, the other is too mature. Thus that is a less likely explanation than the theory that they made up. How would likelihood work with the question of God? How to establish probability of an issue such as the reality of God, where there is an inability to produce empirical proof? Such a discussion could not help but be dominated by prior convictions. Yet if we value explanation and we have reasonable parameters for what needs explaining the explanatory power might give a clue to likelihood. This means we are still left with how to establish “best.”

Gabby and Woods offer a rule to determine explanatory power. The rule sets up a criterion of comparison between hypothesis. At least one element must be more plausible in given hypothesis than its counter parts in competing hypotheses.[6]They develop much more complex statistical theorems. The problem is, even though setting up criteria of comparison is a god idea, we still can't just assert the likelihood of God, or even the unlikelihhod. The individual must decide the values by which to set parameters for comparison. For example if we value explanations that assume a “why” to the universe then God as explanation seems more likely. If we assume flat out there can be no why then we have already eliminated God from consideration. The problem in making a God argument is that God is not given in sense data. Thus God can't be the subject of empirical investigation, not directly. What we can do is to specify parameters and criteria that prepare us to make educated decisions about belief. In other words, we can't draw a picture of the hole in a doughnut, but we can draw the doughnut around the hole. In the case of God that means rational warrant justifies belief. Rational warrant means that a given belief is possible and plausible, thus not irrational.

We might be able to say that the best explanation would account for all the data or account for the most crucial data than other explanations. We could also stipulate that the explanation be the most simple as long as we don't confuse conceptual simplicity with absence of data, or simplicity of structure. For example when Dawkins argues that God would have to be more complex than the universe he creates, he's assuming the laws of physics apply to God.[7]He's ignoring conceptual simplicity. Most of the great apologists such as Aquinas saw God as conceptually simple.[8]In other words God is not made up of physical parts. This raises the issue of Occam's razor and parsimony. Parsimony is a principle akin to abductive reasoning used in science where direct empirical data is lacking. It was based upon Occam's razor but the two are not identical. Atheists have, on occasion, taken Occam's razor as a means of ruling God out of the equation. They either assert that God is not necessary, thus Occam's dictum about not multiplying beyond necessity applies to God, or they think Occam said take the simplest of two hypotheses.[9]

They are also confusing Occam's razor with Parsimony. Occam was a priest and he believed in God he didn't think the razor got rid of God. For that reason I've always been somewhat peeved by their use of this argument. Moreover, what the razor really says is that we should not multiply entities beyond necessity.[10]Atheists assume that since they don't believe in God then God is not necessary. This is begging the question. They are asserting the lack of a God and using that position to deny the God argument.

To understand what Occam was really talking about we must understand his nominalism.

three senses of nominalism:

(1) Denial of metaphysical universals: applies to Occam.

(2) reduce one's ontology to bare minimum, streamline categories: applies to Occam.

(3) Nix abstract entities, depending upon what one means; here Occam may or may not have been a nominalist in this sense. he did not believe in mathematical entities but he did believe in abstraction such as whiteness, or humanity.

Ockham removes all need for entities in seven of the ten traditional Aristotelian categories; all that remain are entities in the categories of substance and quality, and a few entities in the category of relation, which Ockham thinks are required for theological reasons pertaining to the Trinity, the Incarnation and the Eucharist, even though our natural cognitive powers would see no reason for them at all. As is to be expected, the ultimate success of Ockham's program is a matter of considerable dispute.[11]He was not getting rid of God. Occam's razor never allows us to deny what Spade calls "putative entities" which would definitely include God.[12]It merely bids us refrain from positing them without good reason. Of course our atheist friends would tell us there is no good reason to assert God, but answering that is the point of making God arguments. In fact for Occam humans can't really know what is necessary. "For Ockham, the only truly necessary entity is God; everything else, the whole of creation, is radically contingent through and through. In short, Ockham does not accept the Principle of Sufficient Reason.."[13]This is not a contradiction because all the razor says is refrain form multiplying entities without good reason, not “rub out of existence all concepts that can't be empirically verified.” Note that he includes God as the only truly necessary entity. Thus atheist are violating Occam's razor in trying to use it on God. Of course there is equivocation in the of the term “necessary.” Atheists making the argument applying the razor to God speak of causal necessity while believers rest their ontological arguments upon ontological necessity.

An example of how “best explanation” should be considered:

This example is based upon the multiverse argument. The idea of the multiverse is taken seriously in science, even though it is the stuff of comic books and science fiction. The notion is what it sounds like: reality is divided into an infinite array of parallel universes. The argument is used to answer the fine tuning argument for God. The fine tuning argument says that the attributes of the universe that make life possible are so unlikely the game must be fixed. That's a good reason to believe in a planing intelligence as a creator. Our atheist friends say “not so fast.” There are infinite universes, thus infinite chances for life bearing. With infinite chances the odds of hitting life bearing are not so remote so there is not such a good reason to assert the need of a God. There are good answers to this, the argument is defensible. I wont defend it here because its not relevant. I am not asserting fine tuning to save the TS. My purpose in raising it is to make a point about how to consider best explanation. The multiverse argument illustrates how the assumptions we make change the kind of explanation we seek. Is the multiverse necessary? It's a matter of empirical investigation and there may be empirical evidence to support it. Claims have been made of hard data proving Multivese, but when investigated they evaporate. Here's a physicist who opposed string theory and multiverse. He argues that his evaluation of the papers finds irresolvable problems.

In recent years there have been many claims made for “evidence” of a multiverse, supposedly found in the CMB data... Such claims often came with the remark that the Planck CMB data would convincingly decide the matter. When the Planck data was released two months ago, I looked through the press coverage and through the Planck papers for any sign of news about what the new data said about these multiverse evidence claims. There was very little there; possibly the Planck scientists found these claims to be so outlandish that it wasn’t worth the time to look into what the new data had to say about them. One exception was this paper, where Planck looked for evidence of “dark flow.”
[14]

If hard evidence turns up for it then we have to deal with that on it's own terms. Until that time Multiverse should be shaved with Occam's razor. We don't need it to explain reality, it's only advanced to keep from having to turn to God. It's naturalistic so it's an arbitrary necessity at best. Arbitrary necessitates are logical impossibilities, contingent things jumped up to the level of necessity to answer a God argument. It's not that we are going to disprove the unnecessary entity (multiverse) but we are going to refrain from advancing it's existence as an assumption until such a time that real empirical evidence makes it empirically undeniable. We can make that kind of ruling about the multiverse because its an empirical matter, even though it may be undetectable; God is not an empirical matter because God is both transcendent and transcendental. Therefore, Multiverse should be taken out of the issues of God arguments, yet we can't make that ruling about God. That's an example of what I meant when I said we can fill in the doughnut around the hole. If we find empirical evidence of multiverse we may have to re-think a couple of God arguments, In the mean time God might be the best explanation for the uniqueness of our world. In any case parsimony is perhaps the best point of inference for abduction.

Most philosophers believe that, other things being equal, simpler theories are better. But what exactly does theoretical simplicity amount to? Syntactic simplicity, or elegance, measures the number and conciseness of the theory's basic principles. Ontological simplicity, or parsimony, measures the number of kinds of entities postulated by the theory. One issue concerns how these two forms of simplicity relate to one another. There is also an issue concerning the justification of principles, such as Occam's Razor, which favor simple theories. The history of philosophy has seen many approaches to defending Occam's Razor, from the theological justifications of the Early Modern period, to contemporary justifications employing results from probability theory and statistics
[15]

Again we have to distinguish between conceptual simplicity as opposed to mere ignorance of the case, or simple structure. In other words Dawkins treats God as a big man who must have more parts than the universe he creates (see above). That is simplicity in terms of structure, the physical structure of God. That is a case we just don't know about. We can't judge that. We can think of God as the simpler concept in terms of the economy of relations. First we can think of God as mind, not brain. We do not know that minds are complex. Brains are complex but we know nothing about mind. On the other hand we might posit that mind is simpler than brain because it's not a set of biological parts, but at least theoretically might be akin to the spirit. In any case God's relation to the whole is simple: one mind which thinks the universe. One mind that in the act of perceiving sets all meaning, creates all that is, and judges all moral value. That is more simple in terms of economical relations between all parts than a multiverse. A multiverse would multiply the problems of fine tuning and something from nothing by every universe.

To spell out the criteria by which we might judge a “best” explanation, not just simplicity alone but conceptual simplicity, we must be able to make comparisons between hypotheses. We can't compare hypotheses if they don't compete for the same results. Belief in God is not a scientific hypothesis, thus it does not compete with science. Thus belief cannot be reduced to the simplicity of “the best science.” For this reason we can call the kind of parsimony of the abductive version as parsimony of elegance. In other words not just take the simplest idea, but take the truly elegant hypothesis. By “elegant” is included conceptually simple in terms of relation to the whole theory, as well as consistant, competitive, and complete (accounts for most data, and most crucial data). To make a list of qualities of an elegant hypothesis. Above I quote Baker as saying elegance is number and conciseness of the theories basic principles. Ontological simplicity is the number of kinds of entities. By that measure God would be both eligant and ontologically simple: one kind and its concise. To that I add the notion of bang for the buck; not just fewer kinds and more concise but accomplishes more for less.

Criteria for choosing the best explanation:

I. Simple (elegant and ontologically simple).

Focus is on God's relationship to all aspects of the universe and reality. It's not about issues like what is God made of or does he have parts. The relation itself of the God concept to the universe is what is at issue. One concept that props up every thing is simpler than trying to account for everything through loose ends. That's why they want a grand unified theory. More concise and bang for the buck.

II. Competitive:

Does the explanation compete with other explanations? In a sense no, the other explanations are not scientific. Science and religion have different domains they are meant to do different things. God and science don't compete. Yet the question is not one of science vs. God but of world views. While science makes up a large part of the world view of scientists and skeptics (and believers too at times) if we think of atheism as a world view there's more to it than just science. Atheism consists of actively cutting out the kinds of existential and phenomenological explanations that are part of the believer's world view. So belief in God answers the questions abou8t life at a more philosophical level, to my way of thinking a more profound level. Science tells us how the physical world works. God tells us why there is a physical world. Of course there are limits to how much we are told. That's the job of Theological to figure out what God tells us and what God does not tell us. Belief in God competes with other philosophical level questions. Religions are often thought of as competing with each other for believers, even though they all point to the TSED as a generic object of faith. This is not to say they are all the same or that it doesn't matter, but for the sake of the TS argument I'm going to bracket that for now. Atheism and belief in God Compete directly because the farmer seeks to explain the world by removing the explanation of the latter. While most atheists turn to science for explanatory power they often embrace an ideological version of science that is tuned to screen out religious explanations.xvi God transcends our understanding and our observations. Thus God belief can't compete with science's answers of how the universe works; nor does it need to. It does answer the why, the best atheism can do is to assert that there is no why. To the extent that both world views seek to account foe ultimate origins.

So the issue is not one of science vs. belief in God, but belief vs. atheism. In other words given equal embrace of science which world view best explains the world? Some will claim that science rules out God because there's no necessary place for God in a world of modern science. That just depends upon what kind of explanation we seek. The believer must not allow the skeptic to pull a bait-and-switch whereby the workings of the physical world are put over as the best explanation just because they are the most certain.

III. Logically consistent with self and world:

No internal contradictions in theory, and if it does contradict what we think we know it has to re-explain it in a way so as to account for the apparent contradiction.

IV. Complete:

Explains more of the data than other hypotheses, and coordinates the answer to all other areas or more other areas than do other hypotheses. Example. God not only explains something from nothing but also accounts for ethics and meaning. The totality of data is all aspects of existence. It can't be limited to just empirical data but all aspects of human being and the nature of existing.

V. Must be a Philosophical or metaphysical answer

The hypothesis should be philosophical in that it considers the phenomena on a higher level than just the physical workings of the universe. We have to be careful, however, not to set up the criteria in such a way that God is the only valid answer because nothing else applies. God must be the best explanation because other alternatives are eliminated. To demonstrate that I have not just set things up to favor my argument, I will, when the time comes to eliminate other alternatives, show alternatives that also fit the criteria. Why a philosophical answer? Why not just content ourselves with the physical universe and how it works? That approach would rule God out before one got started thinking about that question. By Metaphysical I mean in the sense Wiltshire uses it, talk about talk about the world (glossery). Or to put it another way, thinking about how to think about the world. That answer must proceed from a transcendental perspective, analyzing the system of thought itself. The answer must be on a transcendental or metaphysical level but need not involve God. Does we must manufator a reason for things? No but there is a fine line. The answer can't content itself with pure physics and no more, but it can't demand a purposive reason as the only option. The explanation (sans God) on the metaphysical level might involve just dealing with the consequences of a purposeless world. We have to face the possibility that there is no purpose, but by the same token the skeptic must respect a subjective sense as the justification for seeking purpose. It's true that this criterion asks one to acept positions that perhaps can't be proven, but we don't have to prove the actual reality of God to produce a rational warrant for belief. Even a subjective sense can be analyzed and subjected to forms of verification see my first book, The Trace of God: A Rational Warrant for Belief, available on Amazon).

These five qualities taken together are what I call “the best explanation.” The conclusion of the argument posits a TSED which can logically be understood as a generic God Concept. That conclusion has to meet the criteria. I will defend the premises as true statement based upon best educated judgement then show how the proposed conclusion meets the criteria as best explanation for the phenomena sited.

sources

1 Igor, Douven, "Abduction", The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. (Spring 2011 Edition), Edward N. Zalta (ed.), URL = . Accessed 8/3/15.

2 Ibid

3 Ibid

4 Peter Lipton, Inference to The Best Explanation. New York: Routledge, International Library of Philosophy, 2nd ed.,2004, 6.

5 Ibid., 207-208.

6 Dov M. Gabby and John Woods. A Practical Logic of Cognitive Systems: Vol 2, The Reach of Abduction...Amsterdam, The Neatherlands.:Elsevier B.V., 2005, 160.

7 Dawkins 747 thing

8 Thomas Aquinas, The Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Aquinas Second and Revised Edition, 1920Literally translated by Fathers of the English Dominican ProvinceOnline Edition Copyright © 2008 by Kevin Knight Nihil Obstat. F. Innocentius Apap, O.P., S.T.M., Censor. Theol.Imprimatur. Edus. Canonicus Surmont, Vicarius Generalis. Westmonasterii.New Advent Catholic Encyclopidia, URL:http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1003.htm#article1 accessed 8/28/15.

9 “How to Reason: Section 8, Ocam's Razor,” God Would be An Atheist. URL: http://www.godwouldbeanatheist.com/0reason/008occam.htmn 8, Occam's Razor,” , accessed 8/6/15

This is a website for atheism, it is not a scholarly site. In fact there is no listing of an author.. I quote it as an example of popular misconception.The site says: “Occam's Razor: in any situation offering two or more explanations, the simpler or simplestexplanationis always best.” Documentation of atheists using Occam to disprove God: Robert T. Carroll, “Occum's Razor,”The Skeptic's Dictionary. Url:http://skepdic.com/occam.html. Accessed 8/6/15

What is known as Occam's razor was a common principle in medieval philosophy and was not originated by William, but because of his frequent usage of the principle, his name has become indelibly attached to it. It is unlikely that William would appreciate what some of us have done in his name. For example, atheists often apply Occam's razor in arguing against the existence of a god on the grounds that any god is an unnecessary hypothesis. We can explain everything without assuming the extra metaphysical baggage of a divine being.

10 C.K. Brampton, "Nominalism and the Law of Parsimony." The Modern School Men, Volume 41, Issue 3, (March 1964), 273-281.

11 Paul Vincent Spade and Claude Panaccio, "William of Ockham", The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (Fall 2011 Edition), Edward N. Zalta (ed.), Fall 2011 (substantive content change) [new author(s): Spade, Paul Vincent; Panaccio, Claude] on lin resourse URL: http://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/StarChild/questions/question30.html accessed 8/18/15.

12 Spade, et al, Ibid.

13 Ibid,

14 Peter Woit, “Hard Evidence for Multiverse Founjd, But String Theory limits Space Brain Threat,” Not Even Wrong,(May 22, 2013 ) online resourse: http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/ accessed 8/26/15.

15 Alan Baker, "Simplicity", The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (Fall 2013 Edition), Edward N. Zalta (ed.), URL = . Accessed 8/6/15

Tuesday, October 30, 2012

Lesson in Argument: Critique of Dialogue with Atheist souper genyus

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 this is a dialogue I had with an atheist on CARM the message board

Originally Posted  by souper genyus View Post


the context of this post was an argument I made that is basically my old cosmological necessity argument. It says that some from of being is eternal and therefore, not contingent (necessary). Since this primordial being is the basis of all that is, it must be considered the ground of being.That means three of the major attributes of God actually exist and all there is is based upon them. Then we need only consider they are bound together by mind to believe in God. This is a pretty good warrant for belief. No it's not proof, it doesn't have to be proof. It warrants belief. Hey don't look know bu this is far from "no reason to believe" it's far from  the "nothing" upon which atheists think faith is based.

The indented segments attributed to me (Meta) are what I said on the board. The regular segments are what I'm saying in commentary for this post.


SG:
And, everything we observe is "contingent upon prior conditions." Whether or not this applies to the universe as a whole is a matter of contention, which means the answer is not within the scope of human knowledge. To say that there is a condition prior to all other conditions, and that condition is God, is unknowable. 

 Meta:
It's not unknowable. It's unknowable by your means. I know it. Your means are not the only means of knowing. Al thought hey may be the only means that you will accept as proof. Be that as it may I don't argue for proof but for warrant, and I think what you say about prior conditions is enough to warrant the belief.
These means of knowing to which I refer include Logic, intuitive sense such as the feeling of utter dependence, as well as experiential means such as mystical experience. They also include scientific knowledge from disciplines other than cosmology. I support a concept of global knowledge. Knowledge is reducible to just scinece. We have to make use of all the forms of knowledge we have. We discount one's that don't pan like reading tea leaves.

SG:
But you end the contingency of events to prior conditions at God, which is special pleading. Your idea is that one needs "grounding" to make claims about reality, and that "grounding" is God, or Being Itself, or Ideal and Ultimate Being. 

 Meta:
 that is not special pleading. It's still subject to the rules of logic that your assertions are subject to. It's not true that I assume that is the only possible grounding, I just don't see any other that works. to be more precise it so fits the nature of the case that I hold for God I don't see that find of fit elsewhere. I see no reason to deny it when it works.
 The atheists are trying to argue special pleading a lot these days and they don't seem to know what it means. Special pleading means my argument conforms of a special case that doesn't have to fit under the same rules as everything else. I'm saying that. Nowhere did I say "all grounding is God.k" That's BS. I don't say that. I use the same rules of logic for my arguments that I used to refute their objections. They think atheism is entitle to presumption in any argument. So if you don't give presumption they assume you are special pleading.

Of cousre I link being itself with God as does Tillich and the major Christian tradition. I have reasons for doing so. I've spelled out those reasons many times.


 SG:
This is not consistent with the view that you are proposing, a view that I propose as well—that all conditions observed are dependent upon prior conditions. Knowledge is wrought from the intelligent control of concrete conditions.

 Meta:
Sure that is consistent. I've deduced the warrant for belief from that premise, I don't base the premise upon the warrant. By "intelligent control of concrete conclusions" he means reductionism. So what he's really saying is that his ideological basis is the given for all facts and it's permissible to just lose the phenomena anytime it doesn't coordinate with his facts. That is also the Atheist fortress of facts.

what we are about to see here is the atheist question begging in action. He's going to use arguments from taxonomy ("this is metaphysics") and the genetic fallacy (that comes from idealistic assumptions).


SG:
The pursuit of knowledge assumes change, assumes prior conditions, and in fact relies upon it. These principles are "true" without a grounding in metaphysics,

 Meta:
see.


I said:
no they are not! the assume metpahiscs. your views are No  less dependent upon metaphysics that mine. weather you say "the dialectic is made of green cheese" Or "metaphysics is BS" you are making metaphysical assumptions. if you say "Metaphysics is carp" you are making a metaphsyical statement.

your ideology has staked out certain metaphysical assumptions that are cool and others that are not cool.

SG:

without appeal to self-sufficing Ultimate Being, in that they are predictive and applicable to the concrete, measurable conditions that they aim to explain. These principles explain how current conditions came to be, through change, from other conditions, and predict how they will change into other conditions in the future. Why conditions change according to these principles, in an ultimate or metaphysical sense, is not within the scope of human understanding.

 Meta:
no they don't. they don't explain it we don't know it. they certainly don't. we have no idea what brought it all about and don't try to pretend we do becasue we know we don't. you dont' know what it's made of. we don't know lots of things, none of your ideological metaphsyical assumptions can explain mystical experience or give life transformation or meet any of the epistemic criteria required to suffice as warrant for belief.

See the moves he's made? He's first secondment my whole position as "metaphysics." that in itself says "nothing you have to say matters." then tried to establish reasonable sounding rules that steak out his position as the only permissible one: reductionism. From it's a down hill coast just to use taxonomy (which is part of the genetic fallacy) so show my position comes from the forbidden realm of stuff that he doesn't deem as knowledge.


SG:
This is where we disagree and this is where I keep trying to direct the discussion, but you always redirect. Our disagreement is in the usefulness or validity of metaphysics.

 Meta:
no it's in the hidden assumptions you don't know you have which are metaphsyical. you have an implied metaphysics you don't know you have. you are forbidding the positions that ideology counters for no reason except ideological reasons.
I try to redirect it he says, in other words, if I don't agree with him I'm getting us off track! Are the assumptions me makes Metaphysical? Atheists want us to think metaphysics is just about God and unseen realms and miracles. No Heidegger says metaphysics is grouping of sense data under a single organizing principle that defines reality. That's just what these guys are doing, the scientism does it. Reductionism does it. They only allow as "knowledge" and "reality" that which they can control, that which supports their view. Anything that counts against their view they just dismiss as "beyond the pale, this is "metaphysics" it's not knowledge. That move is totalitarian.

SG:
I hold that understanding the fundamental nature of being is not within the scope of human understanding. The scope of human knowledge only contains propositions concerning concrete conditions that are contingent upon prior concrete conditions, and predictions about future conditions based upon these propositions.

 Meta:
that is no different form saying "I refuse to accept any implications but the one's that legitimate my truth regime. unless you accept my conclusions and the whole ideology that it implies then you can't have truth. I say I can. i dont' have to accept your means of knowing truth. I have a broader base for knowing than you do. you are doing the reductionist thing of cutting off the bits you can't control losing the phenomena.
see what he said? first of all if understanding the fundamental nature of being is not in the scope of human understanding what is science working toward? Why can't it be? What he really means is it's not in the scope of the aspects of knowledge that my ideology. Certainly there are such aspects that pepople feel they have come to undersatnd by various means that aer not acceptable to his view but nonetheless have demonstartion that they do impart some form of knowlege.

Mystical experience for example has a quality called "noetic" which means it imparts knowledge about reality. The proof that it has is the universality of the experience and the effects of having it such that one is transformed into a better life. That would be proof of a better understanding of the fundamental basis of being if the fundamental basis of being is about being transformed. Part and parcel of the mystical experience itself is a deep abiding sense that one has come to understand reality and the fundamental nature of being in a deep intuitive way.

Why can't this be so? All it would mean is that the scientism guys don't have the only from of knowledge. What is so unthinkable about that? Then they say "but it doesn't conform to our rules, it doesn't demonstrate it they way we want it to, which means it simply doesn't doesn't conform to their controls, that position is not all of the truth. They are totalitarian they have to feel that have all truth.

SG:
You keep assuming that I am trying to hold up a different metaphysics than yours, when in fact I am affirming strong agnosticism in reference metaphysical claims in general. Please discuss this.

 Meta:
yes of cousre you are. just don't realize what metaphysics is. you think it's just belief in God. It's not. Science is metaphysics too. you are cutting reality becuase it doesn't' your truth regime. that's metaphysics.
 In many ways he's illustrated classic symptoms of them ideologue. He has the only form of knowledge, just identifying the other guy's position as outside the turf of proper bounderies of knowledge is enough to destroy it.