On CARM this guy "sofa King" one of the major trolls makes the bold assertion that
if God existed he would know it.
That's a good question. To make the statement "if God existed I would know it" requires several assumptions not in evidence:
(1) That God can't be be hidden
(2) that belief in God is only adding a fact to the universe
(3) That you don't know it and aren't just refusing to accept what you know.
(atheists really hate that one)
(4) That god is given in sense data
All of these assertions are wrong headed. You can know and you would know if you would allow yourself to realize God's reality; but you can't know by proofs or by empriical observational of sense data.
Since the latter is the only kind of evidence you accept then you can't know and you will never know.
It's not a matter of proof but realization. This is because God is not given in sense data, God is not another fact about the universe. God is not just another thing in the universe.
God is the basis of all reality. I used to make an analogy that was whimsical and meant to be; a fish scientist is hired to find water. He spends all his time looking at the ocean floor and never finds it because it never occurs to him he's looking through it. God is the medium in which we live. God sit he basis of reality and what we call reality is a thought God entertains. Thus you can't find God by examining empirical data.
you can only find god by ascertaining the nature of being and your place in being (ie a contingent creature). You can't prove God, you can't discover God you have to realize God and you do that by realizing the nature of being and your place in it.
God wants to be hidden because the point of life is the search; the search is a mechanism whereby we can internalize the values be gain by doing the search.
God arguments serves as focal points that enable to us lack on to coordinates so we aren't just saying 'all kinds of junk and stuff proves God." You have to have a place to start making realizations, but the place to end up is in the heart. the heart is the field where all actions takes place God-wise.
The idea that "I would know if there is a God" I suggest you do know, but you have yet to realize what you know, and the reason is becasue you don't want to face what it means to realize your place in being.
For example, the transcendental signifier argument (or "focal point"). There has to be a thing at the top of the metaphysical hierarchy that lends meaning to all the lesser meanings which we use to mark the world.
We cannot think coherently or communicate with out this. We may think of it as "reason," or "maths" or "laws of physics" but there is a top to the metaphysical hierarchy, even if you say "I don't believe in Metaphysics, that's bull" you are making a metaphysical statement and assumption by saying that. You cannot escape Metaphysics, you have to engage in it even to reject it, and thus you must subjective to an organizing principle because that's what Metaphysics is, grouping and organizing the world under some single organizing principle (Here I"m speaking of Heideggerian metaphysics).
Even the most Dawkamentalistic atheist has an er zots version of God.
This is just a part of the overall realization that the basis of reality is "holy" and special and has everything to do with the meaning of our place in the world.
That's the bottom line of belief in God, the object of ultimate concerns. Realizing that there is an object of our ultimate concerns is realizing God.
__________________
5 comments:
"God wants to be hidden because the point of life is the search; the search is a mechanism whereby we can internalize the values be gain by doing the search."
What is your basis for this statement?
"God wants to be hidden because the point of life is the search; the search is a mechanism whereby we can internalize the values be gain by doing the search."
What is your basis for this statement?
the nature of religion in the world. The fact is yu do have to search. Jesus even calls it a search. he says "seek and ye shall find." why seek? Obviously that's the plan.
It seems odd that someone would say, "If there were a God, I would know it."
It seems to me the opposite is true-- we are limited in nature and in knowledge, and we in actuality cannot "know" anything at all! Especially not anything about metaphysics, since we can't be sure even our physical senses are always giving us a true picture of the world.
I learned, in the small amount of philosophy I got in college, that the most common idea is that we can't know whether or not there is a God. To this the theists add-- unless God chooses to become known. Which I believe God has-- but you have to open yourself up to that possibility before that can become a reality in your own life. Which means you have to be willing to "see" with more than just your eyes.
Metacrock-man, you've misspelled my name in your Blogroll: it should be Dmitry Chernikov's Blog. Thanks!
Metacrock-man, you've misspelled my name in your Blogroll: it should be Dmitry Chernikov's Blog. Thanks!
Oicky picky! geeez all these little things like getting names right! ;-)
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