The thing about so-called "deconversion" is that it is just losing your faith. I have seen many atheists who try to build it into some enlightenment process where they wised up. Anyway you look at it it's really just a process of becoming
disillusioned.
Of course they replace faith with various ideas that pertain to things that bothered them about Christianity. i liked that guy (deconverted man--DM) his positive outlook on Rauser's progressivity.
The thing that always irked me about the phrase "deconversion" is the way some would try to make it into a counter witness. They would try to indicate it was as transforming as religious conversion was for me. I guess if you have not been transformed by your religious faith then the measure of enlightenment pertaining to various issues would seem by comparison to be transforming, The example in our discussion was where the DM said finding that evolution is true was freeing him from belief.
I experienced something like that when I decided I was an atheist and shucked off my Church of Christ upbringing, I felt freed and liberated on many fronts. Evolution was one of them. Yet this is nothing compared to the transformed nature of finding Jesus. That is my own subjective experience but it is backed by empirical data, My first book, the Trace of God was about this. 200 studies in peer reviewed academic journals, document the transforming effects of religious experience. The bottom line is there is no similar body of data showing that losing your faith is life transforming on that same level.
I can't say that finding yorself as an atheist and shedding a beleif sysrem you no longer agree with cannot be a speical time in one's life. But I doubt it can compete with fiding Jesus is real and beginging a personal relaionship with him-- If any really seek to compete and I'm sure many do not.
In case anyone is interested, Here is a link to my essay "HowI got saved and became Metacrock"
Joe: The thing about so-called "deconversion" is that it is just losing your faith. I have seen many atheists who try to build it into some enlightenment process where they wised up. Anyway you look at it it's really just a process of becoming disillusioned.
ReplyDeleteRight, because coming round to your way of thinking is special, but deciding you are wrong is just meh.
There is a thread on CARM that tries to make the same point.
https://forums.carm.org/threads/can-a-convertible-deconvert-into-a-basic-sedan-can-the-4th-letter-of-the-alphabet-d-convert-to-the-letter-c.12103/
The change from atheist to Christian is life-shattering enlightenment, but the change the other hardly affects a person at all.
So is there a big difference between being a Christian and being an atheist or not?
Pix
ReplyDeleteRight, because coming round to your way of thinking is special, but deciding you are wrong is just meh.
There is a thread on CARM that tries to make the same point.
https://forums.carm.org/threads/can-a-convertible-deconvert-into-a-basic-sedan-can-the-4th-letter-of-the-alphabet-d-convert-to-the-letter-c.12103/
The change from atheist to Christian is life-shattering enlightenment, but the change the other hardly affects a person at all.
That is not what I said. I didn't say "deconversion" doesn't affect anyone. I said it can be a special time.
So is there a big difference between being a Christian and being an atheist or not?
My first books, The Trace of God, documents 200 peer reviewed studies from academic journals showing concreate affects from religious experience. There is no such concrete data for atheism.
Joe: That is not what I said. I didn't say "deconversion" doesn't affect anyone. I said it can be a special time.
ReplyDeleteYou were very clear that going one way is far more significant than going the other:
"Yet this is nothing compared to the transformed nature of finding Jesus."
Joe: My first books, The Trace of God, documents 200 peer reviewed studies from academic journals showing concreate affects from religious experience. There is no such concrete data for atheism.
What has that to do with the topic?
Pix
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteJoe: That is not what I said. I didn't say "deconversion" doesn't affect anyone. I said it can be a special time.
You were very clear that going one way is far more significant than going the other:
"Yet this is nothing compared to the transformed nature of finding Jesus."
So? It was amazing time. i bet few atheists can match it.
Joe: My first books, The Trace of God, documents 200 peer reviewed studies from academic journals showing concreate affects from religious experience. There is no such concrete data for atheism.
What has that to do with the topic?
Those experiences often accompany conversion in my case they were a direct result.
Leaving an authoritarian and toxic version of religion can be very freeing. This can be done with or without retaining faith in God. I think it's probably better not to believe in God at all, than to believe in a controlling, small minded, hateful version of God. But I must agree with Joe that none of this compares to an actual encounter with the divine.
ReplyDeleteThat is a good point. i thought about that and hinted at it. I do agree with you. My experience of shcuking off the C of C mentality and becoming an ashiest is along those lines. But You make a better point by being more clear about it.
ReplyDeleteJoe: "deconversion" ... Anyway you look at it it's really just a process of becoming disillusioned.
ReplyDeleteYou are right. I believe the experience I had in coming to Christ was just an illusion. In deconverting I became dis-illusioned.