tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post4461962202115309444..comments2024-03-29T03:30:25.637-07:00Comments on Metacrock's Blog: Moer Exchagne with AdreaJoseph Hinman (Metacrock)http://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-54676435193832721082013-02-09T03:31:47.648-08:002013-02-09T03:31:47.648-08:00Euthyphro dilemma is famous and its from Socrates,... Euthyphro dilemma is famous and its from Socrates,and Plato. Anyone who has been on apologetics boards as long as I have has heard it a couple of million times. The thing is it wasn't presented in a way that I recognized it. <br /><br />In essence it says are God's commands good because God says they are (is the good just an arbitrary whim) or are God's commands good becuase they fit a higher stand that even God has to follow. The implications being either good is arbitrary and thus murder could be called good tomorrow of God chose, or if God follows a higher standard then he's not really in charge.<br /><br />Atheists are taught in their brain washing that this is irresolvable and thus it disproves God and Christian morality.<br /><br />It's easy to answer and I solved a long time ago.<br /><br />(1) it only applies to a set of deities like Greeks had where they did have higher standard set b the fates.<br /><br />(2) Greek god's are contingent.they don't have the same potential for being all knowing or for being the standard of the good. So for Zeus there was a higher standard he had to follow, thus he is not analogs to the Christian God.<br /><br />(3) The standard that God follows is his own character: love. Thus the good is not an arbitrary whim but it's based upon God himself. It's not arbitrary neither is it a higher standard that is above God but it s God's on charter.Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-75352283493725125812013-02-08T20:30:05.547-08:002013-02-08T20:30:05.547-08:00Your answer on his "slave" accusation wa...Your answer on his "slave" accusation was very good indeed.<br /><br />But I didnt understand what you said about morality. My analysis on the problem was probably not good so maybe you didnt understand my doubt. Also I wanted to state that he says that WE confuse morality with laws. Lets focus on it.<br /><br />I just found that its called "Euthyphro's dilemma"(from a Platonic conversation) and that its PUZZLING. You can look at wikipedia about it. <br /><br />They say it has two parts, first and second horn. Is really something morally good because it is by itself, or because God chooses or orders it? <br /><br />Here I will set my questions in better form. The main problem with first horn is that if some morals existed apart from God then it means they are eternal as He is and have sovereignity as He Has. Stated simply, God is not the only eternal one and also He loses His omnipotence since he has to choose only what is morally good if He is only good. <br /><br />The main problem with the second horn is that if God decides what is moral and what is not, then theres not a standard definition of good and bad. God can not be called good or bad and only what God says is good no matter if doesnt seems moral to you or me. For example Isaac's sacrifice. This is what he meant when he said that apart from what God ordered Abraham, Abraham battled with his moral consciousness. Was it God the one who ordered him or the voice of the devil and why would God ask something so terrible? The atheist used this as proof that morality exists in Abraham no matter what God orders.<br /><br />I made a thought about the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Why God said "Look, Abraham became as one of us, knowing good and evil"? Does it means that God had "eaten" knowledge or morality in the past as a story where we read that Odin gained knowledge sacrificing one eye? This could serve as an argument that morality or knowledge exists apart from gods.<br /><br />I tried to find an answer. Some distinct between moral truths. They use the phrase "contingent" moral truths but I dont what this means. Also, their articles were too complex for me to undestand them. Im generally a fan of simplicity. I also noticed that opinions differ as in all subjects. Some theists say morality is apart from God, some others not and a third group that some morals yes, some morals not apart.<br /><br />I think its a fascinating subject. If you find any free time, you can help on this.<br /><br />Have a good dayAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com