tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post114775863577304825..comments2024-03-28T15:31:02.860-07:00Comments on Metacrock's Blog: Must Christians keep law?Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)http://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-1153102833014266342006-07-16T19:20:00.000-07:002006-07-16T19:20:00.000-07:00that's totally ridiculous. the Chruch says Paul is...that's totally ridiculous. the Chruch says Paul is in. His stuff makes up most of the NT. The chruch council in Acts said he was ok. I don't know why people have to always dd to the bible and take veres out of context and distort what it says.<BR/><BR/>I don't have time to go though point for point, but Paul is the first systmeic theologian and if it was not for him you would be shaving the corners of your beard and not drving on sunday.<BR/><BR/>you need to learn what grace means. Paul was the only one to see it.Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-1152424373315608132006-07-08T22:52:00.000-07:002006-07-08T22:52:00.000-07:00Hi, I am a musician who has been impacted by Keith...Hi, <BR/>I am a musician who has been impacted by Keith Green and I would be honored if you would check out my music, all music is free to download. I just wanted to share my music with People who love Jesus. www.SeanDietrich.com<BR/><BR/>I don't want to be a pest, so if this really annoys you, please delete it and accept my humble apology.<BR/><BR/>Thanks so much,<BR/>-Sean<BR/>____________________<BR/>www.SeanDietrich.com<BR/>"All my music is free."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-1152554570771392412006-07-10T11:02:00.000-07:002006-07-10T11:02:00.000-07:00Psalm 111 says that the commandments are forever a...Psalm 111 says that the commandments are forever and ever...<BR/><BR/>Paul preached a false gospel.<BR/><BR/>I used to feel amazed by Paul too...until I read one of his verses that taught opposite Christ.<BR/><BR/>I seriously believe Paul was a false apostle as:<BR/>1. He wasn’t ordained an apostle by Christ (Mat 10)<BR/>2. He didn’t qualify to be an apostle (Acts 1:16-26)<BR/>3. Paul’s doctrine is proven false:<BR/><BR/>After Christ died and rose he appeared to his apostles. The gospels record him as appearing to the “eleven” (remember, Judas had died), but Paul’s doctrine is in clear error as he tells us that Christ appeared to the “twelve”:<BR/><BR/>Paul said twelve:<BR/><BR/>1 Corinthians 15:4-6<BR/><BR/>4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve<BR/><BR/>Mark said eleven:<BR/><BR/>Mark 16:14: Afterward he (Christ) appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat<BR/><BR/>Matthew said eleven:<BR/><BR/>Matt 28:16-18:<BR/><BR/>Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.<BR/><BR/>Luke’s mentions the “eleven”: <BR/><BR/>2And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. 3And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. 4And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: 5And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? 6He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, 7Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. 8And they remembered his words, 9And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.<BR/><BR/>Acts mentions eleven:<BR/><BR/>Acts 1:26:<BR/><BR/>26And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.<BR/><BR/>Paul is a liar, and a proven false witness. Christ, in Revelation 2:2 commends the church of Epheus for figuring out false aposles. He said, “…thou hast tried them which say they are apsostles, and are not, and hast found them liars. Remember, Paul preached at Epheus.<BR/><BR/>Fact 4:<BR/>The apostles did not believe Paul was a disciple:<BR/><BR/>Acts 9:26<BR/>26And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.<BR/><BR/>After Barnabas told the apostles that Paul had “seen the Lord” and that he preached boldy in the name of Jesus, the Apostles didn’t tell him to join them, but they sent him home to Tarsus. Remember, Jesus told us (Mat 13:57) that a prophet is not without honour except in his own country and in his own house . The apostles sent Paul to a place that no one would believe him.<BR/><BR/>I have much, much more on my website going into faith works and law too. If you want to see more, just go to my site: www.returntorighteousness.blogspot.comDigital Diet 365https://www.blogger.com/profile/10207415272577702960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-1152554632187113432006-07-10T11:03:00.000-07:002006-07-10T11:03:00.000-07:00I used to feel amazed by Paul too...until I read o...I used to feel amazed by Paul too...until I read one of his verses that taught opposite Christ.<BR/><BR/>I seriously believe Paul was a false apostle as:<BR/><BR/>1. He wasn’t ordained an apostle by Christ (Mat 10)<BR/><BR/>2. He didn’t qualify to be an apostle (Acts 1:16-26)<BR/><BR/>3. Paul’s doctrine is proven false:<BR/><BR/>After Christ died and rose he appeared to his apostles. The gospels record him as appearing to the “eleven” (remember, Judas had died), but Paul’s doctrine is in clear error as he tells us that Christ appeared to the “twelve”:<BR/><BR/>Paul said twelve:<BR/><BR/>1 Corinthians 15:4-6<BR/><BR/>4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve<BR/><BR/>Mark said eleven:<BR/><BR/>Mark 16:14: Afterward he (Christ) appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat<BR/><BR/>Matthew said eleven:<BR/><BR/>Matt 28:16-18:<BR/><BR/>Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.<BR/><BR/>Luke’s mentions the “eleven”: <BR/><BR/>2And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. 3And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. 4And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: 5And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? 6He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, 7Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. 8And they remembered his words, 9And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.<BR/><BR/>Acts mentions eleven:<BR/><BR/>Acts 1:26:<BR/><BR/>26And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.<BR/><BR/>Paul is a liar, and a proven false witness. Christ, in Revelation 2:2 commends the church of Epheus for figuring out false aposles. He said, “…thou hast tried them which say they are apsostles, and are not, and hast found them liars. Remember, Paul preached at Epheus.<BR/><BR/>Fact 4:<BR/>The apostles did not believe Paul was a disciple:<BR/><BR/>Acts 9:26<BR/>26And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.<BR/><BR/>After Barnabas told the apostles that Paul had “seen the Lord” and that he preached boldy in the name of Jesus, the Apostles didn’t tell him to join them, but they sent him home to Tarsus. Remember, Jesus told us (Mat 13:57) that a prophet is not without honour except in his own country and in his own house . The apostles sent Paul to a place that no one would believe him.<BR/><BR/>I have much, much more on my website going into faith works and law too. If you want to see more, just go to my site: www.returntorighteousness.blogspot.comDigital Diet 365https://www.blogger.com/profile/10207415272577702960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-1147915623291582652006-05-17T18:27:00.000-07:002006-05-17T18:27:00.000-07:00why don't you come on my message board and we can ...why don't you come on my message board and we can discuss? It seems to me the message board is better desined for a back and forth kind of debate.Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-1147901803889944212006-05-17T14:36:00.000-07:002006-05-17T14:36:00.000-07:00Thanks for your interest, Metacrock.I have posted ...Thanks for your interest, Metacrock.<BR/><BR/>I have posted a response here:<BR/><BR/>http://slaveofone.blogspot.com/2006/05/slaveofone-v-metacrock.html<BR/><BR/>I hope others will have a look.slaveofonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17493574936843969520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-1147814914919690582006-05-16T14:28:00.000-07:002006-05-16T14:28:00.000-07:00Here's that source by David SeelyJesus' Death in ...Here's that source by David Seely<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.ntgateway.com/synptic-l/JDEATH.HTM" REL="nofollow"><B>Jesus' Death in Q</B></A>Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-1147814300837309622006-05-16T14:18:00.000-07:002006-05-16T14:18:00.000-07:00I'm afraid your want to turn Christianity into a h...I'm afraid your want to turn Christianity into a higher morality religion by appealing to a "spiritual" law instead of the "letter," is entirely inconsistent with first century Judaism. <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><B>Meta:</B>Really? So Paul was not a first century Jew?<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Your Jesus is a Greek philosopher or Stoic going around preaching moral verities instead of a Jewish Eschatological Prophet practicing a new covenant.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><B>Meta:</B>That's a very irresponsible argument since most modern scholars argue that the early layer of Q source is cynical/stoic in nature. They further argument (as per Helmutt Kosester) that Greek cynical thought was so popular among first century Jews that it could be found all over Palestine and the Diaspora (see my Doherty paper when I am reading to link it up).<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Further, your approach is denigrating to Judaism and the entire ancient world itself. <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><B>Meta:</B> I don't see how. You said "my Jesus" displays Greek Philosophy, that's ancient world. Koester documents that it was widespread among the Jews, and he's not the only one. Check out the article by David Seely on "Jesus Death in Q." He shows that it was commonplace for first century Jews to frame the death of prophets in sotoical terms. I think you are not mindful of the text of hellinistic influnces.<BR/><BR/>http://www.ntgateway.com/synoptic-l/JDEATH.HTM<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>What you are really saying is that people in the ancient world and their ancient cultures are inferior to more Westernized cultures and worlds whose moral system is based on a structure of internalized guilt or peace instead of social shame or honor. One is not a progression of the other.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><B>Meta:</B> I know of no injunction in the OT to be honorable in keeping the law. The shame/honor thing wasn't part of it. Guilt and peace have a lot more to do with it. That's certainly the way it look in Paul's world. You could accuse me of being Pauline, that's ok with me. I would accept that. You yourself identified "My Jesus" as a Greek Cynical philosopher. Now where do you get off calling that "modern?" Seems like a contradiction to me.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>The difference between an a non-Christian Jew/Gentile and a Christian Jew/Gentile is not that one follows the law and the other follows the spirit of it, but that one looks for the fulfillment of things (and how one responds to Yahweh’s grace) through Law whereas the other looks for the fulfillment of things (and how one responds to Yahweh’s grace) through Yeshua.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><B>Meta:</B> So you are saying Christians follow Jesus? O no, how dreadful. I would never have thought of that. Well excuse me for putting up Jesus up on a pedestal.He's only the incornate logos. Where does he get off thinking he's the Messiah! Wow the nerve of us Christians, having our own faith and everything!<BR/><BR/> Yeshua set himself up to replace observance of the law. A Christian believes that he is the replacement for Law observance and follows him. A non-Christian does not believe he is the replacement and continues to seek through Law what Yeshua said is now given and done through him, thereby rejecting him. <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><B>Meta:</B> I'm not concerned with non Christian theology, I'm concerned with Christian theology.Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-1147807642305106992006-05-16T12:27:00.000-07:002006-05-16T12:27:00.000-07:00I'm afraid your want to turn Christianity into a h...I'm afraid your want to turn Christianity into a higher morality religion by appealing to a "spiritual" law instead of the "letter," is entirely inconsistent with first century Judaism. Your Jesus is a Greek philosopher or Stoic going around preaching moral verities instead of a Jewish Eschatological Prophet practicing a new covenant.<BR/><BR/>Further, your approach is denigrating to Judaism and the entire ancient world itself. What you are really saying is that people in the ancient world and their ancient cultures are inferior to more Westernized cultures and worlds whose moral system is based on a structure of internalized guilt or peace instead of social shame or honor. One is not a progression of the other.<BR/><BR/>The difference between an a non-Christian Jew/Gentile and a Christian Jew/Gentile is not that one follows the law and the other follows the spirit of it, but that one looks for the fulfillment of things (and how one responds to Yahweh’s grace) through Law whereas the other looks for the fulfillment of things (and how one responds to Yahweh’s grace) through Yeshua. Yeshua set himself up to replace observance of the law. A Christian believes that he is the replacement for Law observance and follows him. A non-Christian does not believe he is the replacement and continues to seek through Law what Yeshua said is now given and done through him, thereby rejecting him.slaveofonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17493574936843969520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-1147798020713950902006-05-16T09:47:00.000-07:002006-05-16T09:47:00.000-07:00I agree. thank you for your support.I agree. thank you for your support.Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-1147796919991249032006-05-16T09:28:00.000-07:002006-05-16T09:28:00.000-07:00Meta,Great post. I have seen the old Law vs. Grace...Meta,<BR/><BR/>Great post. I have seen the old Law vs. Grace tactic before. It goes to show that the skeptic is only repeating what others have said, and have not read, nor understand the Bible. One of the nauseating mistakes is that skeptics completely ignore that Jesus *fulfilled* the law. They insist on stating that he “threw out” the law to create some sort of false tension between the two. <BR/><BR/>Keep up the good work,<BR/><BR/>~BFSteveiT1Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15271837187081908611noreply@blogger.com