tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post8262764234767209562..comments2024-03-18T11:13:57.904-07:00Comments on Metacrock's Blog: Hartshorne's Modal ArgumentJoseph Hinman (Metacrock)http://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-42347688901743203082009-08-11T07:18:06.340-07:002009-08-11T07:18:06.340-07:00To ask the question does god exist, and to attempt...To ask the question does god exist, and to attempt to prove the existence of god is in fact to affirm the proposition that god does not exist until absolutely proven otherwise by the same doubt-filled mind that asks the question.<br /><br />www.dabase.org/dht7.htm<br /><br />www.adidam.org/teaching/aletheon/truth-god.aspx<br /><br />www.dabase.org/rgcbpobk.htm<br /><br /><b>No it' not. that's ludicrously stupid. IF that's true than does asking if the world is round mean it must be flat?<br /><br />Besides, I don't argue for the existence of God. I argue for the rationality of belief.</b>Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-17574330134763877622009-08-11T04:39:54.903-07:002009-08-11T04:39:54.903-07:00To ask the question does god exist, and to attempt...To ask the question does god exist, and to attempt to prove the existence of god is in fact to affirm the proposition that god does not exist until absolutely proven otherwise by the same doubt-filled mind that asks the question.<br /><br />www.dabase.org/dht7.htm<br /><br />www.adidam.org/teaching/aletheon/truth-god.aspx <br /><br />www.dabase.org/rgcbpobk.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-46642360360405540222009-08-06T05:47:09.617-07:002009-08-06T05:47:09.617-07:00Joe, that's rather rude to accuse me of playin...Joe, that's rather rude to accuse me of playing games, when you know that's not like me. I'm not the one trying to "win" to prove that I'm right or that I'm smart.<br /><br /><br />Joe: sorry. I didn't mean it that way, bad way to put it. I just said that because it reminded me that I have seen it a lot.Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-83522320742811897912009-08-05T10:04:25.489-07:002009-08-05T10:04:25.489-07:00Check this out, you might find it interesting: htt...Check this out, you might find it interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWqk1o6bDxAMike aka MonolithTMAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08385705390882035829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-26079910124775531472009-08-05T10:03:49.751-07:002009-08-05T10:03:49.751-07:00"why do you focus on the fundie Christians&qu..."why do you focus on the fundie Christians"<br /><br />I don't. I don't read fundie blogs. I read theist and atheist blogs that interest me.<br /><br />"One of the little games atheists play, I'm sorry to see you learning it,"<br /><br />Joe, that's rather rude to accuse me of playing games, when you know that's not like me. I'm not the one trying to "win" to prove that I'm right or that I'm smart.<br /><br />I couldn't care less if someone thinks I'm smart.<br /><br />As to special pleading, if I were arguing for the existence of dark matter and you were arguing for the existence of God you might have a point.<br /><br />My point is that if it so obvious that God exists, as the scriptures say, then why do people keep trying to prove he exists?<br /><br />I just find that odd. No reason to get upset.Mike aka MonolithTMAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08385705390882035829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-28223758330644168262009-08-05T07:09:00.335-07:002009-08-05T07:09:00.335-07:00Mike"You also don't seem to realize that ...<i><b>Mike</b>"You also don't seem to realize that we are talking about the culmination of a tradition that has stretched over a thousand years."<br /><br />Well, I did say "over the millenia"<br /></i><br /><br /><b>Meta:</b> sorry.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><b>Mike</b><i>Wouldn't you say a lot more importance is put on the idea of God.</i><br /><br /><b>Meta:</b> As opposed to what? Most important idea deserves the most treatment.<br /><br /><br /><b>Mike</b><i>A large portion of those arguing are telling us that God is going to punish us, snuff us out, or eternally separate himself from us if we don't do the right thing, accept him, etc.</i><br /><br /><br /><b>Meta:</b> When I tell my friends "those atheits on CARM are stupid and ignorant, uneduated, theya re full of hate they ridicule me becuase they don't nkow anything," they say "so why do you keep talking to them?" I don't really have a good answer. I know. I just have this drive to "beat them" and show them I'm smart, but that's really not what it's supposed to be about.<br /><br />I can say the same kind of thing to you.<br /><br />so why do you focus on the fundie Christians who don't know anything when you have all these great thinkers you could be learning about?<br /><br /><br /><br /><b>Mike:</b><i>Dark matter has no bearing on anyone supposed salvation. Also, no one tells us how obvious dark matter is.</i><br /><br /><b>Meta:</b> Both irrelivant. One of the little games atheists play, I'm sorry to see you learning it, is this totally illogical idea that because something is about salvation that means your special pleading about it is allowed. <br /><br />The situation is totally analogous In both cases we are dealing with ideas that can't be demonstrated directly through emprical means. n most God arguments we do exactly the scienists are doing. They theorize about the thing that can't be directly proven and then say "if this exists we should expect to find X.<br /><br />we find X<br /><br />therefore we should think it exists." <br /><br />That is the very same idea behind most God arguments.<br /><br />when they do it it's brilliant science that establishes "fact" in the atheist mind, and when we do it it's stupid and unproved and shows how dumb Christians are.<br /><br />then you play this special pleading game that says "but you are talking about salvation so that means we can special plead and you have a higher burden of proof than naturalism.<br /><br />that's not logical. why would being about salvation mean you can do special pleading? Why would it mean the bar is higher for my belief than yours?<br /><br />what that tells me is atheists are scared to death about going to hell.Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-24453859633353460822009-08-05T06:39:30.454-07:002009-08-05T06:39:30.454-07:00"You also don't seem to realize that we a..."You also don't seem to realize that we are talking about the culmination of a tradition that has stretched over a thousand years."<br /><br />Well, I did say "over the millenia"<br /><br />Wouldn't you say a lot more importance is put on the idea of God. A large portion of those arguing are telling us that God is going to punish us, snuff us out, or eternally separate himself from us if we don't do the right thing, accept him, etc.<br /><br />Dark matter has no bearing on anyone supposed salvation. Also, no one tells us how obvious dark matter is.Mike aka MonolithTMAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08385705390882035829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-70612798486326839892009-08-05T06:21:59.725-07:002009-08-05T06:21:59.725-07:00Mike:Wow, I understood pretty much none of that ex...<i><b>Mike:</b>Wow, I understood pretty much none of that except that it seems that a whole lot of effort has gone into proving God's existence over the millenia. Seems odd considering most tell me I'm a fool for not believing in the oh so obvious God. I know you haven't called me a fool, but still.</i><br /><br /><br /><b>Meta:</b> I would never tell you are a fool. I have also told you I don't believe you don't believe. But be that as it may.<br /><br />I saw a show about dark matter last night on PBS. Nova, I think. what a huge amount has gone into that. Do they have proof for dark matter? They don't even know what it is. They only theorize it exists because they need to to keep from saying God created the universe. And after spending millions and sinking scientific equipment out the you know hwat in mine shafts all over the world they still don't if it exists or what it's made of.<br /><br />But no atheist is going to ridicule the effort to find dark matter.<br /><br />You also don't seem to realize that we are talking about the culmination of a tradition that has stretched over a thousand years. It's also not exclusively about proving God's existence but it's a whole system of thought.Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-45420481649496133352009-08-05T06:06:33.112-07:002009-08-05T06:06:33.112-07:00Wow, I understood pretty much none of that except ...Wow, I understood pretty much none of that except that it seems that a whole lot of effort has gone into proving God's existence over the millenia. Seems odd considering most tell me I'm a fool for not believing in the oh so obvious God. I know you haven't called me a fool, but still.Mike aka MonolithTMAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08385705390882035829noreply@blogger.com