tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post315004730265837493..comments2024-03-29T03:30:25.637-07:00Comments on Metacrock's Blog: Reality of "Value Free" IdoelogyJoseph Hinman (Metacrock)http://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-7667095459658309852011-06-13T22:00:43.625-07:002011-06-13T22:00:43.625-07:00Don't his comments assume that there's som...Don't his comments assume that there's something wrong with being selfish or narcissistic? The two of you are agreeing on this basic point, as far as I can see-- that humans shouldn't be selfish or narcissistic. It's what you define as selfish and narcissistic that differs.<br /><br />He says that science and reductionism are capable of bringing forth values. But I don't see how they can bring about a value like, "It's wrong to be selfish/narcissistic." And yet it seems to be a value he holds. But from a purely evolutionary standpoint, I would think selfishness would be a good thing in that it tends to aid survival, whereas altruism (especially towards non-relatives or non-community members) is evolutionarily a weakness. <br /><br />He also seems to be implying that there's a certain pride in humans considering themselves above the animals, and he seems to believe that this pride is also wrong. Is that because he thinks the belief that we are above the animals is misplaced-- or do I detect a value that pride in itself is wrong?Kristenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08252374623355509404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-32253608027428280312011-06-13T07:15:33.932-07:002011-06-13T07:15:33.932-07:00That's an acute comment Fisher, and what's...That's an acute comment Fisher, and what's really funny is the guy is a professional biologist and professor of same. one would think he would see something special about his ability to study the birds and the bees, since they are not studying him.Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-80654757116069610922011-06-12T21:44:30.738-07:002011-06-12T21:44:30.738-07:00LOL, Meta, just looking at what he writes -- for a...LOL, Meta, just looking at what he writes -- for a guy who accuses other people of narcissism, he seems very ... erm, interested in his own reflections. <br /><br />You know that I have less interest than many Christians in arguing the separation of humanity from nature. In some ways modern Christianity is a caricature of what it might be, as far as acknowledging the kinship of humanity with nature and pursuing the actual flourishing (not mere preservation) of all species through designed symbiosis (beyond companion planting), etc. <br /><br />Still, with all that said: humanity has a unique relationship to nature in that we pursue knowledge of it and unlock its laws. If the guy doesn't think humans are so special, it would be tempting to ask how many other primates (or non-primates) he has ever seen studying biology ... <br /><br />You have your work cut out for you, my friend. :)<br /><br />Take care & God bless ... or should I say, "So long, and thanks for all the fish"? <br />Anne / WFWeekend Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10425001168670801073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-91313811479126036252011-06-10T07:03:21.415-07:002011-06-10T07:03:21.415-07:00on my boards the atheist I refer to in this post l...on my boards the atheist I refer to in this post leaves this comment about the blog piece:<br /><br /><<<Glancing over it I get the impression that you have not yet fully understood what I'm talking about and how I approach problems.<br /><br />For instance stating: "He would rather let people die than reduce population growth." Is grossly misplaced, I never got to a point where I expressed my opinion about a possible solution. I simply set the issue aside to focus the discussion. A purely practical reason.<br /><br />Similarly I would say that your conclusions about me pretending to be ‘value free’ are equally misplaced. Quite the opposite, I want to show you how my values are constructed. That science and reductionism are capable of bringing forth values. But that takes time and can’t be done in a few posts.<br /><br />Most of what I wrote so far was simply aimed at seeing your response, primarily for two reasons. To try and identify how your arguments are constructed relative to mine. And to try and find the best way to explain to you my way of constructing arguments relative to yours.<br /><br />I do not argue “right versus wrong” or try to convince you of my “truth”, I merely wish to explore your reasoning relative to mine. Reading Toulmin I cannot help but call myself a modern equivalent of Montaigne (although I might change my opinion once I have learned more).Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.com