tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post1208800622776757157..comments2024-03-28T08:35:59.048-07:00Comments on Metacrock's Blog: Does God's Trnascendent Nature Prevent Us From Understanding Anything AT All About God?Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)http://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-6316076717770630722016-05-22T06:29:35.273-07:002016-05-22T06:29:35.273-07:00I think the problem with binary oppositions is the...I think the problem with binary oppositions is they create artificial categories. Myself, I am likely no closer to WCL's camp than I am to, say,Dennet's, but if I think of myself as 'Xian" I'm way more likely to find SOME value in something WLC says, while continuing to abhor everything about Dennet - right down to his ridiculous, slightly "big man in the sky" white beard. <br /><br />Otoh, "the East" sees all binaries in terms of dualities, and so there is strong impetus to "harmonize" everything, which in the end might be just as prejudicial Mike Gerowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14630695728013930638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-60211743580858304722012-02-25T06:15:04.130-08:002012-02-25T06:15:04.130-08:00Metacrock, that's a good point, but I think th...Metacrock, that's a good point, but I think the east handles them differently than Aristotelian logic does. Eastern thought sees the binaries in balance, each contributing to the whole, whereas Aristotelian thought sees them in terms of A/Not A, B/Not B, and so on, with "A" positive and "Not A" negative. Aristotle considered the female to be a defective version of the male, for instance, and he thought of society in terms of Greeks/Barbarians. I'm sure you know all this; but I do think it still affects our thinking today. Western thought finds it hard to say "God is unknowable/God is knowable" can both exist as different aspects of the same truth. It's either one or the other. Does that clarify what I mean? <br /><br /><b>good point. the Derridian binary op, that's the way the West deals with it alright. Of cousre when atheists think they have any thing to answer with the jump on it and don't think it though deeply. SOME atheists!</b>Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-81841037757452703582012-02-24T16:50:00.607-08:002012-02-24T16:50:00.607-08:00Perhaps a simple (and quick) reply to "what i...Perhaps a simple (and quick) reply to "what is God like?" would be Love. Let them define that!Ron Krumposhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05371279514024960026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-67847827655417715882012-02-24T15:01:51.796-08:002012-02-24T15:01:51.796-08:00"I think binary opposition are universal. The..."I think binary opposition are universal. The east has plenty of them: yin and yang, dark and light, good and evil (Persian dualism) and so on."<br /><br />Metacrock, that's a good point, but I think the east handles them differently than Aristotelian logic does. Eastern thought sees the binaries in balance, each contributing to the whole, whereas Aristotelian thought sees them in terms of A/Not A, B/Not B, and so on, with "A" positive and "Not A" negative. Aristotle considered the female to be a defective version of the male, for instance, and he thought of society in terms of Greeks/Barbarians. I'm sure you know all this; but I do think it still affects our thinking today. Western thought finds it hard to say "God is unknowable/God is knowable" can both exist as different aspects of the same truth. It's either one or the other. Does that clarify what I mean?Kristenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08252374623355509404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-20683315862997215112012-02-24T12:35:27.272-08:002012-02-24T12:35:27.272-08:00what I find amusing is that the first thing people...what I find amusing is that the first thing people say when I ay God is beyond our understanding is "so what is God like?"Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-14991116186775537032012-02-24T12:33:25.984-08:002012-02-24T12:33:25.984-08:00Say Kristen, I think binary opposition are univers...Say Kristen, I think binary opposition are universal. The east has plenty of them: yin and yang, dark and light, good and evil (Persian dualism) and so on.Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-34044298658527594362012-02-24T12:30:32.759-08:002012-02-24T12:30:32.759-08:00Ron:
Mysticism emphasizes spiritual knowing, which...Ron:<br />Mysticism emphasizes spiritual knowing, which is not rational and is independent of reason, logic or images. Da`at is Hebrew for “the secret sphere of knowledge on the cosmic tree.” Gnosis is Greek for the “intuitive apprehension of spiritual truths.” Jnana is Sanskrit for “knowledge of the way” to approach Brahman. Ma`rifa in Arabic is “knowledge of the inner truth.” Panna in Pali is “direct awareness”; perfect wisdom. These modes of suprarational knowing, perhaps described as complete intuitive insight, are not divine oneness; they are actualizing our inherent abilities to come closer to the goal.<br /><br /><b>Paradox of thought, mystical experience is ofen codified and pressed into doctrine then it becomes more than fresh experience. That's just an occupational hazard of being human and communicating by word of mouth.<br /><br />Ultimately a commitment to any sort of theologian tradition is part of the package that comes with the leap, it's further leap of the leap of faith. It's important to be in a tradition for many reasons. the important thing is not to be rigid about it.<br /><br />I think we can some things. Knowledge is just a crap shoot.</b>Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-83957082622856990292012-02-24T12:13:10.150-08:002012-02-24T12:13:10.150-08:00This tendency to think in binaries (unknowable/kno...This tendency to think in binaries (unknowable/knowable) is part of our Western mindset, passed down all the way from Aristotle. But though binaries can be useful, they can also be quite limiting as a way to understand reality. Either God is completely knowable, or God is totally unknowable. This binary leaves no room for the things you've described, Metacrock, such as different kinds or levels of knowledge, or the possibility that the truth might be somewhere between the two binaries (God is knowable in some ways and not in others, or some aspects of God are knowable, but not other aspects).Kristenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08252374623355509404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11516215.post-82828206190595903702012-02-24T11:39:52.216-08:002012-02-24T11:39:52.216-08:00What we know about God is far exceeded by what we ...<i>What we know about God is far exceeded by what we do not know. In a brief summary:</i><br /><br /> Scriptures, theologians and many religious leaders tell us what the divine <i>is</i> by listing grandiose attributes. Most mystics worship personal aspects of the divine, but they also speak of what it <i>is not</i>. Many of them said that the divine <i>essence</i> is nothing, i.e. <i>no thing</i>, that it is immanent in all things, yet it is transcendent to everything. Mystics consider this seeming paradox to be a positive negation.<br /><br /> <i>Avidya</i>, non-knowledge in Sanskrit, is used in Buddhism for our “spiritual ignorance” of the true nature of Reality. <i>Bila kaif</i>, without knowing how in Arabic, is Islam’s term for “without comparison” to describe Allah. <i>Ein Sof</i>, without end in Hebrew, is the “infinite beyond description” in the Kabbalah. <i>Neti, neti</i>, not this, not this in Sanskrit, refers to “unreality of appearances” to define Brahman. In <i>via negativa</i>, the way of negation in Latin, God is “not open to observation or description.”<br /><br /> Mysticism emphasizes spiritual <i>knowing</i>, which is not rational and is independent of reason, logic or images. <i>Da`at</i> is Hebrew for “the secret sphere of knowledge on the cosmic tree.” <i>Gnosis</i> is Greek for the “intuitive apprehension of spiritual truths.” <i>Jnana</i> is Sanskrit for “knowledge of the way” to approach Brahman. <i>Ma`rifa</i> in Arabic is “knowledge of the inner truth.” <i>Panna</i> in Pali is “direct awareness”; perfect wisdom. These modes of suprarational knowing, perhaps described as complete intuitive insight, are not divine oneness; they are actualizing our inherent abilities to come closer to the goal.<br /><br />(quoted from "the greatest achievement in life," my free ebook on comparative mysticism)Ron Krumposhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05371279514024960026noreply@blogger.com